400 watt DE group buy

[Tstone]

Hey all I have come across a great deal on the new 400 watt DE fixture. This is a plug and play set up.


400 watt double ended metal halide HQI pendant system. Includes electronic ballast with 3 year warranty, 20K DE bulb and pendant enclosure. 14 inches long by 11 inches wide by 6 inches tall.


If 5-10 units $340.00 ea.

10 or more units $330.00 ea.


This price includes shipping to one address.
Normally they are almost $400.00 plus shipping. The deal is we have to buy 5 minimum.


I am in for one anyone else?

[TheUltimateNoob]

that's a really good price. if i had a bigger tank i'd definitely be in for a couple. do you have any pics of what these look like?

[MickyB]

How about same setup in 250 watt?

[ScottM]

whats the length on the bulb? i have heard the industry is havinga hard time stadardizing on the size. who makes the bulb? does it come in a 10k?

[MickyB]

Here is someone slling both 400 and 250 looks like 10K also.
http://www.acropora.net/t5_fluorescent_bulbs.htm

[Tstone]

Well they don't have the 10K in stock yet. The standardization issue has been taken care of.

Remember they are including shipping at these prices. Pretty good deal. I was also told the 20K looks like a 14K 250 DE. It is not as blue as the radiums.

Sorry no 250 specials only the 400DE.

[MickyB]

Do i really need 400 watters over a 30" deep Tank? Thats a good price. Surprised no one is jumping on this..

[ScottM]

i'd be all over it but EVERY person/Dist. i spoke with had words of caution an said it was best to wait until there were more bulb mfg. i was told that lengths were contiually an issue and that the current bulbs were out of japan and i should wait until they came from europe.

[Tstone]

http://phishybusiness.com/images/corals/Picture37.jpg

http://phishybusiness.com/images/corals/Picture36.jpg



This is from Phishy Business. He is using them now.


"Here are 2 pictrues of a 400 watt DE Avalon 20k compared to two 400 watt SE XM 20k. All bulbs were new and have been burned in for exactly 30 days. The Avalon DE in running on a PFO HQI ballast and the XMs on a PFO magnetic ballast. All bulbs are 12 inches from the water surface. The XMs are on either side of the Avalon and are separated by white styrofoam so you can clearly see the difference in the first picture."
Phishy.



Scott
Sanjay Joshi has just finished testing them with several different bulbs. You will be surprised at what he has to say. His results will be out in just a couple more days.

MickyB I have a 30 inch deep tank. That is why I want to get them.

[Scuba_Dave]

Wouldn't the white styrofoam tend to cause a lot more reflective light?

[JeremyR]

That comparison is bunk. The middle stripe inside the styro is much smaller than the two outside portions, and the outside portions would need styro on the ends as well as being the same width for even a non-scientific comparison. Also, 250w DE 10k's are brighter than 400w 20k SE's.. it doesn't take much to overpower one of those. This technology is pretty new, and there is no standard for bulb length meaning if you buy one now, you may not be able to replace lamps later when something you like better comes along. I've been watching these with interest as well, but it's definitely at an "at your own risk" stage.

[MickyB]

I've been watching these with interest as well, but it's definitely at an "at your own risk" stage.


That's what i was afraid of.

[Greg Hiller]

Marvin,

>Sanjay Joshi has just finished testing them with several different bulbs. You will be surprised at what he has to say. His results will be out in just a couple more days<

I wasn't going to post since in general it's not IMO kosher to speak poorly of someones group buy, or sale of anything for that matter, and I'm not exactly speaking poorly here either, but (since you mentioned it yourself already) I plan on waiting for Sanjay's results before deciding what to purchase. I definetly will be interested in these however since my tank is going to be 30" deep. If the data pan out I'm in for sure, probably for three bulbs/reflectors/ballasts.

[Tstone]

Greg thats why I posted that info on Sanjay. Let the data speak.

Of course the pics are not scientific, just pics for a comparison. Nothing more. After all they are from a vendor that sells them. Hardly an unbiased scientific study.
Again I point to the Sanjay material when it comes out.

Jeremy is correct that it does not take much to overpower a 400 SE 20K. I have a 400 SE 20K so I speak from experiance. That is why I am excited about the DE.

[Tstone]

Also I am not here to defend anything. I just happen to have run into a good deal and want to share it with the fellow BRS.

[Mike A]

The results are online.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2004/review.htm

[ScottM]

Conclusion
While these lamps offer an interesting alternative to the reef hobbyist, they are not categorically a whole lot better than the single ended options currently available. Whether the reflectors make a big difference in the light output remains to be seen, and will be the subject of a future article..

[Greg Hiller]

Actually I've looked over this data a little more carefully, though still not completely, and I think I have a different take on it.

If you compare Sanjay's experiments with DE 250 watters to that of the DE 400 watters you will see the following. I actually perform my own calculation using Sanjay's numbers. I take PPFD and divide it by watts consumed to give a 'Bang for the Buck' number. If you look at the 250 W DE study without reflectors (compare apples to apples) you will see that the highest PPFD's were in the range of 104, and the highest PPFD/watts were around 0.39 for the 250 W AB on the Geisman ballast.

Compare this with the 400 W DE results (also no reflectors), one was at 229 PPFD (the Avalon 400W DE 10000K on the PFO - "HQI"), MAN THAT'S a LOT of light!!!! The PPFD/watts is 0.42, the most efficient I've ever seen in a DE bulb (the mogul bulbs I recall come pretty close). Even the Avalon 400W DE 14000K on the PFO - "HQI" was at 199 PPFD, and 0.37 PPFD/watts, and the 20K 400 W DE's don't look to shabby either.

So, seems to me the 400 DE's are just as efficient if not more so that the 250 W DE's. THE QUESTION is though, ARE the reflectors for the 400 W DE's as efficient as those for the 250 W DE (the Reef Optix III I believe was the one to beat). If they are then.....I'll be the first in line.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you compare Sanjay's experiments with DE 250 watters to that of the DE 400 watters you will see the following. I actually perform my own calculation using Sanjay's numbers. I take PPFD and divide it by watts consumed to give a 'Bang for the Buck' number.

Me too. I don't understand why he doesn't do that for us. :D

[Greg Hiller]

>I don't understand why he doesn't do that for us<

In some way he does in the sense that he graphs PPFD vs. power consumption, but if there were some lines on that graph to show say 0.3, 0.35, and 0.4 PPFD/watts, it might give you a better idea of the efficiency (I've taken to drawing the line in myself).