Ground Probes?

[vinny]

I have a question does anybody use them.I was told that if I need one then their is something wrong.But then not to long ago I was told that it's good to have one because any power head or pump (submersible) will have stray voltage.

[jimmyj7090]

Some stray voltage is common/inevitable in most reef tanks. Traditionally the beleif was/is that this voltage is stressful to tank inhabitants. A grounding probe would eliminate this voltage.

In The Reef Aquarium vol 3 by Delbeek and Sprung, they make an interesting point that the stray voltage doesn't matter until if finds a ground and completes a circuit, then there is the potential for that current to affect the livestock. (in other words nothing gets a little zap until you add a ground probe).

I don't know which idea is right or wrong, but I can say that when I have a ground probe in a tank and I'm standing barefoot on the carpet with my hand in the tank I often feel a little tingle, espically when I have a little cut or something on my hand. If I have no ground probe, I don't get that little tingle.

I currently have a ground probe in my main tank, but I don't really know if it's a good or a bad thing???

[vinny]

I siphoned 5 gl. of water into my sump tonight and while the hose was still in the sump I tried to blow the rest of the water out of the hose and got a little tingle on my tooth and lips.But never felt it on my hands.

[vinny]

Would stray voltage kill a fish?

[jimmyj7090]

It's been suggested for a long time that stray voltage might have something to do with lateral-line erosion, but I don't think anyone has couclusively determined if it was a factor or not.

As far as killing a fish, I don't think so. I guess if there was a bunch of voltage in the water and the fish bumped into a gound probe it might get zapped, but I don't really know :)

I think it's more the idea that stray voltage may be an ongoing stressor for fish, but again, I may be wrong...

[vinny]

Thanks Jimmy

[reefinghabit]

if you take a volt meter you will always find at least .1 volts stray in your aquarium. a ground probe is great to use. titanium. this reduces stresss on fish

[vinny]

I just put one in last night.

[S Hunter]

I use 2, 1 in the sump and one in my frag tank..

[Dave McReeferson]

It is imperative that graund fault circuit interupters (GFCI) be used when you have a ground probe in your tank. When you use a ground probe, and you reach into your tank, you are in essence dupicating the "stand in a bucket of water while working with electricity" anecdote, only potentialy much worse. All electrical items within arm's reach of your tank should be plugged into a GFCI outlet before installing a ground probe anywhere in your system.

[delta]

It is imperative that graund fault circuit interupters (GFCI) be used when you have a ground probe in your tank. When you use a ground probe, and you reach into your tank, you are in essence dupicating the "stand in a bucket of water while working with electricity" anecdote, only potentialy much worse. All electrical items within arm's reach of your tank should be plugged into a GFCI outlet before installing a ground probe anywhere in your system.

Just looking for clarification, are we talking about electrical items that are part of the tank system or any and all electrical items?

[smcnally]

if you take a volt meter you will always find at least .1 volts stray in your aquarium. a ground probe is great to use. titanium. this reduces stresss on fish
This is usually due to induction from the lighting.
It is imperative that graund fault circuit interupters (GFCI) be used when you have a ground probe in your tank. When you use a ground probe, and you reach into your tank, you are in essence dupicating the "stand in a bucket of water while working with electricity" anecdote, only potentialy much worse. All electrical items within arm's reach of your tank should be plugged into a GFCI outlet before installing a ground probe anywhere in your system.
Dave, I've heard hobbyists say this for awhile now and it really isn't true. Electricity always takes the path of least resistance (the probe). Any stray voltage in your tank will bypass you and go straight to ground. If you are barefoot and standing on the floor you may feel a slight tingle, but pull that probe and your going to get the full jolt. The situation that I would agree a grounding probe is more dangerous would be if you bumped your arm against your lighting wiring and were touching the water at the same time. In that case, the lighting voltage would go through you, into the water, and then to ground through the probe. A GFCI is certainly another added line of precaution, but probes still help even without one.

[reefinghabit]

hey off the beat but. since we are talking about electricity. my building at sea world got struck by lightning last night. it was the loudest bang i ever heard and the building shook. sounded like a bomb went off. we lost complete power for about 30 seconds, the fire department came to check it out, they told us everything workded as it should have. they also told us we had 2 million volts of electricity hit the roof then follow its path thru the metal building and into the ground, so yes ground probes really do work, lol.

[Dave McReeferson]

Just looking for clarification, are we talking about electrical items that are part of the tank system or any and all electrical items?

All electrical items. With some (possible) exceptions, see below.

Dave, I've heard hobbyists say this for awhile now and it really isn't true. Electricity always takes the path of least resistance (the probe). Any stray voltage in your tank will bypass you and go straight to ground. If you are barefoot and standing on the floor you may feel a slight tingle, but pull that probe and your going to get the full jolt. The situation that I would agree a grounding probe is more dangerous would be if you bumped your arm against your lighting wiring and were touching the water at the same time. In that case, the lighting voltage would go through you, into the water, and then to ground through the probe. A GFCI is certainly another added line of precaution, but probes still help even without one.

You are partially correct here Steve. If a submersible pump or heater were to be leaking stray voltage into your tank from within, you would indeed (I believe) be safer if a grounding probe was in use. However, it should be remembered that we have a miriad of electrical devices located around our tanks, and while these may not be leaking electricity into our tanks, they will gladly leak it into you, if you happen to be the path of least resistance.

Any device located within arms reach of your tank is a potential hazard, but let's use your light example as it is probably the most likely occurance. If you were to have your hands in the tank, and while removing one of your arms bumped an elbow against a lighting fixture or other electrical device in the hood, the path of least resistance for any stray voltage that may be present would be in through that elbow and out through the other arm. It should be noted that this path (in one arm, out the other) would take the electricity almost directly through your heart.

This same example could be applied to working in your sump and bumping your (probably moist) hand against an external return pump while your other hand is in the sump. An external return pump is often subject to splashing and salt spray and is probably a very likely source of stray current. Think of all of the power strips and other equipment in our stands and in our hoods that are potential hazards. many of these items are subject to occasional splashes, sprays, and good ole' salt creep rendering them all potentially very dangerous.

I am aware of the potential drawbacks of GFCI's possibly shutting down essential equipment in your system, but the risk to benefit ratio is pretty heavily weighted in favor of caution here IMO. Heck, even without a ground probe, GFCI's are a wise (and small) investment considering they could save your life.

[Dave McReeferson]

After re-reading your response Steve I see you actually do see the danger there, and I did not acknowledge that in my post, but I feel you underestimate the danger. I believe the danger is greater with a probe (and no GFCI) than it is without a probe (and no GFCI), unless you add a wet floor and bare feet into the equation, and I would hope noone would aproach anywhere near any electrical appliances under these conditions.

[smcnally]

I agree with you to a point. IMO, if there are no nearby electrical items outside of the tank that you could get jolted from, then it is worth putting one in.

[Billybob18]

regrading the comment about grounding probes prevent and reversing lateral line. I have a purple tang with partial lateral line prior to me getting a grounding probe the lateral line didnt get worse or better. When i put a grounding probe in i have noticed a small reversion of my purple tangs' lateral line. So i would definatelly suggest everyone have a grounding probe. No matter if its a reef or FOWLR.