LED Lighting

[JCheung]

Hey anyone know of any companies that are creating LED lighting for aquariums like 10k light bulbs? Like instead of MH, PC, or T-5 using LED bulbs. theoretically they are much more efficient and produce less heat.

[RichConley]

theoretically they are much more efficient and produce less heat.

None of the ones available are theoretically more efficient or produce less heat than MH bulbs.


That being said, a company called Aquailluminations (I believe) is releasing a fixture using the Seoul Semiconductor P4 LEDs, which do about 100 lumens/watt, which is about where halides are. (The solaris does about 25, for comparison).

The Aquailluminations fixture may be the first one thats actually competitive. When LEDs reach about 120-130 lumens per watt, they'll be more efficient than MH/T5.

[Reef55]

pfo solaris is the one currently on the market.

[JCheung]

Yeah i said they were theoretically more efficient than flourescents. Yes the current ones that are necessary for home usage are not as efficient as flourescent.
That being said for things like spot lighting they are already there, traffic lights, the stupid blue leds that are in all electronics now, those are already in the 500 lumens per watt range i believe, they have a prototype 1000 lumens per watt LED already but its not for home usage. Because it is very directed light.
On top of that they don't have mercury or other serious toxins and last 5 times as long. So i would like LED lighting to come out as soon as possible. Too bad they still haven't gotten the manufacturing processes down to make them cheaper.

[RichConley]

those are already in the 500 lumens per watt range i believe, they have a prototype 1000 lumens per watt LED already but its not for home usage. Because it is very directed light.


No, theyre not.

Theyre prototyping in the 135 lumen/watt range. 500 may not even be possible, and 1000 certainly isnt possible.

[Greg Hiller]

>last 5 times as long<

This could be a big factor for us. How many of us wouldn't like to have some more blue light that wouldn't fade. If you could get some really powerful blue LED's they'd probably be small enough to add to just about any fixture we already have.

[JCheung]

I forgot where i read it but it was a very new development of a 1 lumen bulb for 1 milli watt which would equate to 1000 lumens per watt

[JCheung]

There is also a 1000 lumen LEd but that is pretty inefficient.

[Yaktop]

http://www.aquaillumination.com/

someone buy one and post what you think :D

[Aquaman_68]

http://www.aquaillumination.com/

someone buy one and post what you think :D

Bend over rover!! I think your a good candidate:D

[JCheung]

yeah no
Length (in inches) Price (USD) Early Adopter Price (USD)
12 $850.00 $765.00
24 $1320.00 $1188.00
36 $1890.00 $1701.00
48 $2490.00 $2241.00
60 $3075.00 $2767.50
72 $3660.00 $3294.00

[jc9394]

The price is not that bad when you compare to the high end hqi or t5 fixture. Considering it will last longer and no additional heat.

[JCheung]

its 90w of power per foot of lighting and are comparable to 250w MH lights. the only plus is that they're modular for the price.

[smcnally]

The price is not that bad when you compare to the high end hqi or t5 fixture. Considering it will last longer and no additional heat.

I disagree... 60" LED fixture is $3075.00

A 60" 3x250W MH setup would run about $1000. Add 5 years of bulb replacements ($1200) and that is a total of $2,200. The LED fixture would have to save you about $70 a month over the MH (which I doubt it does) Just to break even. Now...also remember that in this example, now we have a 3x250 W mh with brand new bulbs, and an LED fixture that is now DUE to have the bulbs replaced and I'm sure they are pretty pricey!

[smcnally]

BTW, I do agree that LED lighting will be the way in the future... IMO, it is just too new and too pricey right now.

[JCheung]

yeah manufacturing processes aren't as advanced as incandecent, flourecent, and metal halides are. There is currently no economies of scale with them just like solar panels. There just needs to be a catalyst for the industry to start mass producing these things. As soon as that happens these things will be dirt cheap.

[RichConley]

IMO, it is just too new and too pricey right now.


It is, but it absolutely spanks the solaris, and isnt really any more expensive...which is a good sign.

[Joedes3]

I use blue computer lights on my nano for moonlight

[jc9394]

I disagree... 60" LED fixture is $3075.00

A 60" 3x250W MH setup would run about $1000. Add 5 years of bulb replacements ($1200) and that is a total of $2,200. The LED fixture would have to save you about $70 a month over the MH (which I doubt it does) Just to break even. Now...also remember that in this example, now we have a 3x250 W mh with brand new bulbs, and an LED fixture that is now DUE to have the bulbs replaced and I'm sure they are pretty pricey!

Well, it all depends what you consider as high end HQI.

A Giesemann cost you 2300
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GM-251-873-K&Category_Code=Giesemann

A Sfiligoi Infinity XR4 HQI 3 x 250w with T5 cost 3300

[PThanh1968]

I just notice LEDs are widely use today.
Bright LED is not cheap. I built moonlights, they cost around $5.50 for one, $20 for 5 from DIY Electronics in Needham.

[Jeff.:P]

Some more prices
http://www.jlaquatics.com/phpstore/store_pages/tlist/ledlighting/ledlighting.php?category_ID=144

LED vs. MH effficiency
http://www.solarisled.com/FAQTechnical/LEDvsMHEfficiency/tabid/61/Default.aspx

Solaris Estimated Cost Savings Over Other Fixtures
http://www.solarisled.com/FAQTechnical/SolarisCostSavings/tabid/65/Default.aspx

:cool:

[smcnally]

Well, it all depends what you consider as high end HQI.

A Giesemann cost you 2300
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GM-251-873-K&Category_Code=Giesemann

A Sfiligoi Infinity XR4 HQI 3 x 250w with T5 cost 3300

That's also a 3x250W HQI and 4X80W T5. That's a little different than a 3x250 setup, don't you think?:rolleyes:

[JayM]

I disagree... 60" LED fixture is $3075.00

A 60" 3x250W MH setup would run about $1000. Add 5 years of bulb replacements ($1200) and that is a total of $2,200. The LED fixture would have to save you about $70 a month over the MH (which I doubt it does) Just to break even. Now...also remember that in this example, now we have a 3x250 W mh with brand new bulbs, and an LED fixture that is now DUE to have the bulbs replaced and I'm sure they are pretty pricey!

What is the average life of a MH ballast? Controllers? I think we're getting closer to convergence on price than meets the eye. But I don't get why there's a 2 year warranty when they keep claiming 50,000 hours of bulb life. My calculation says 50,000 hours, even at 24 hours a day takes over 5 1/2 years to get to that bulb age. So what's the weak link?

[JCheung]

manufacturing processes, you always get a bad bunch. Like how the early lcd screens kept getting pixels, even though they last a long time the initial screens had to have very long warrenties. Now it hardly happens except with the bigger screens, eventually even those will go away.

[RichConley]

What is the average life of a MH ballast? Controllers? I think we're getting closer to convergence on price than meets the eye. But I don't get why there's a 2 year warranty when they keep claiming 50,000 hours of bulb life. My calculation says 50,000 hours, even at 24 hours a day takes over 5 1/2 years to get to that bulb age. So what's the weak link?


The weak link is that these bulbs have a 50K hour life if driven well below normal current. The solaris drives them slighly above normal current, so theres no way they'll ever last that long.


FWIW, comparing the Sfilgoi to the solaris is silly. The Sfilgoi is a MUCH nicer fixture, and puts out about 5 times the light.

[jc9394]

The weak link is that these bulbs have a 50K hour life if driven well below normal current. The solaris drives them slighly above normal current, so theres no way they'll ever last that long.


FWIW, comparing the Sfilgoi to the solaris is silly. The Sfilgoi is a MUCH nicer fixture, and puts out about 5 times the light.


I don't think that is silly, which is nicer is a personal opinion and Sfilgoi putting out about 5 times more light have no scientific backing. I don't recall anyone compared these two before.

[Sean Irwin]

Given the current popularity of going green (which I hope won't just be some stupid trendy thing that causes people to buy stuff or is forgotten in 10 months) and the amount of money being spent on R&D we should see significant increases in LED efficiency and decreases in cost within the next five years. Several research groups have made great strides in increasing output and simplifying the manufacturing process which will ultimetly make LEDs cheaper and more suitable for our purposes. Right now, LED lighting makes a great deal of sense for nanoreefs where heat management and tank footprint limits most other lighting options. LED manufacturing is not exactly environmentally friendly but the enhanced lifespan of the bulbs balances their impact. I hope that other tank products (pumps) will become more efficient as well but there just isn't the same market pressure as exists for lighting fixtures.

[devin mac]

this is a LONG thread, but covers some DIY led action pretty well, also goes into some details about lighting and performance, reliability, etc... There are a few other led lighting threads over there, but this was the best, if i remember correctly.

http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=57855&hl=led

[JCheung]

The really cool thing about LED lighting is that you can program individual LED's to be on or off. So you can run crazy experiments on your tank like display the word food before you feed your fish and see if in a couple of weeks if you just switch the lights to say food will they automatically come up looking for food.

[Sean Irwin]

No LED's needed, my fish recognize me and the turkey baster I use to deliver their food.

[JCheung]

But, But, But.... your not even attempting to make them learn to read. Bad fish parent!

[RichConley]

I don't think that is silly, which is nicer is a personal opinion and Sfilgoi putting out about 5 times more light have no scientific backing. I don't recall anyone compared these two before.

MH lighting: 100 lumens per watt.

Luxeon l3: ~20 Lumens per watt.


Theres plenty of scientific backing. Chosing to ignore it doesnt make it any less true. If you want links to the L3 specifications, I can give them to you. I promise, theyre not pretty.The Solaris is not efficient. Its not even close. Its got less efficiency than running PCs.

The aquaillumination with the Seoul Semi P4s is a totally different story.

[jc9394]

MH lighting: 100 lumens per watt.

Luxeon l3: ~20 Lumens per watt.


Theres plenty of scientific backing. Chosing to ignore it doesnt make it any less true. If you want links to the L3 specifications, I can give them to you. I promise, theyre not pretty.The Solaris is not efficient. Its not even close. Its got less efficiency than running PCs.

The aquaillumination with the Seoul Semi P4s is a totally different story.


I may be wrong, but I was referring to the aquaillumination unit all along. I agree with you on the Solaris, I never consider them as comparable to halide.

[RichConley]

Right, but I was saying comparing the Sfilgoi to a Solaris was silly, and you were replying directly to, and refuting, that.


FWIW, comparing the Sfilgoi to the solaris is silly. The Sfilgoi is a MUCH nicer fixture, and puts out about 5 times the light.

[jc9394]

Right, but I was saying comparing the Sfilgoi to a Solaris was silly, and you were replying directly to, and refuting, that.

I guess I jump the gun too soon. Thanks for correcting me. :D

[Sean Irwin]

The real benefit is the ability to adjust of the LED power output while still maintaining the specific color (spectral) output. I totally agree that LED technology is still not intense enough for most reef tanks. In five years though I think we'll all be throwing our metal halides in the trash.

[RichConley]

The real benefit is the ability to adjust of the LED power output while still maintaining the specific color (spectral) output.

You can do that with MHs and Fluoros. You just need dimmable ballasts, which aren't cheap.

[JCheung]

Ahh yes but can you control them individually? into certain sections of the tank, like front lights bright, back ones dim, or vice versa.

[jbundas]

like front lights bright, back ones dim, or vice versa.

Why would you want to do that?

[jimmyj7090]

Seems like you could do a lot with that kind of fine tuning ability,
ie have a hot spot move across the tank over the course of a day so as to simulate the sun moving across the sky, or for fancy spotlighting effects to go for the effect you see in some Japanese tanks (many lamps with different colors and intensities focused on specific corals to exaggerate their particular colors).

Then again, I'm guessing that's something to think about in 5-10 yrs when the things get a LOT cheaper and more refined.

IMO it does seem like there is a lot of potential with LED's, but there's no way I'm considering using them on my reef until the technology evolves a whole bunch. FWIW, I have a LED headlight for my mountain bike that's bright enough to ride at a good clip in the woods in total darkness, but that has just about nothing to do with the lights being made for reef tanks now.

[JCheung]

Why would you want to do that?

So you can spotlight different corals in different areas of the tank. Say one has low light requirements and another has high light requirements you can dim the lights over the low light corals.

[jbundas]

So you can spotlight different corals in different areas of the tank. Say one has low light requirements and another has high light requirements you can dim the lights over the low light corals.

If economy an efficiency is your goal, wouldn't you be better off going the Japanese multi-light style - buy a cheaper, less powerful light to put where need it rather than buying a more expensive programmable high power light and only using say half it's potential?

[jimmyj7090]

FWIW, those complex Japanese litghting set ups don't look like they are even remotely cheap to buy, but then agian the current LED set ups aren't even close to cheap either?

[Sean Irwin]

You can dim fluorescents and MH but their spectral output redshifts when electrical power is decreased (dimmed). LED's on the other hand do not redshift when power is decreased. This allows you to create cloudy conditions or true sunrises/sunsets and to light acclimate corals.

[RichConley]

This allows you to create cloudy conditions or true sunrises/sunsets and to light acclimate corals.

And theres no evidense that sunrise/sunset is anything other than neat.

[jimmyj7090]

true...

[LockeOak]

Sunrise/sunset near the equator is also extremely brief, at the equator the sun goes straight down/up (perpendicular to the horizon), very little dawn/dusk. I think the dawn/dusk lighting many people do with their actinics has much more to do with aesthetics than anything else. (That said, I do run my actinics a little longer in the evening for the wow effect).