Ozone one more time

[Greg Hiller]

I read through some of the old threads here on the forum, but would like the latest recommendations from people that have been using for a while.

I would like to increase the clarity of my water. The system is about 450 gallons total tank volume. Heavily stocked with SPS, some softies, LPS, and large fish.

What's the latest recommendation for ozonizers? I think I'd like to do it the lazyman's way and just inject into my skimmer.

[Yaktop]

red sea skimmer injected into the skimmer get the one with the orp controller and its pretty much fail safe. you still using the ets 800?, kinda under rated for that volume and might be part of the water clarity issue.

[Calciumbuf]

I've been using a red sea 200mg deluxe, I tell ya I've been having the hardest time with this thing no matter how I administer it (through a reactor or into the skimmer) the best I can do is an orp of 340 without it my orp stays around 310. I've changed probes, air dryer's , sent the unit back for repair still no luck. Not to highjack the thread but i'm open to suggestions.

[Yaktop]

I've been using a red sea 200mg deluxe, I tell ya I've been having the hardest time with this thing no matter how I administer it (through a reactor or into the skimmer) the best I can do is an orp of 340 without it my orp stays around 310. I've changed probes, air dryer's , sent the unit back for repair still no luck. Not to highjack the thread but i'm open to suggestions.

same one I have didnt have any issues except messing with the beads all the time. PIA. My orp would get uptp 400 no problem. wish I could help the only issue I ever heard is if people used it without a dryer. I assume you can smell the ozone so if you do its not the unit. wish I had better advice.

[Calciumbuf]

Yeh I'm baking beads again right now, going to try yet another configuration and yes I can smell the ozone out of the output, sometimes things are just not ment to be.

[Greg Hiller]

>you still using the ets 800?, <

Ed, I've been using the...G-4 I think it's called. I had three of the Sedra pumps on it, but after I did the mesh mod on the pumps I had to turn one off. One thing to keep in mind, I'm looking through a lot of water, and for that reason I'd like it to be a bit clearer. I'm also thinking about using a filter sock on the return to the sump.

Regarding the ozonizer, I was reading Randy's articles and it sounded like you could just purchase a slightly larger one and not bother with the air dryer. Anything that needs the kind of maintenance an air drier would require I'm not sure I want to mess with.

[Yaktop]

what kind of air pump are you using? maybe as simple as more air? loss after that. good luck.

[Yaktop]

only reason I asked I noticedthe ETS on the TOTM. and yes alot of water, my tank is smaller only 30 deep :) I'm in the market for a large skimmer sounds like your happy with the G4? can you give more details? TIA.

>you still using the ets 800?, <

Ed, I've been using the...G-4 I think it's called. I had three of the Sedra pumps on it, but after I did the mesh mod on the pumps I had to turn one off. One thing to keep in mind, I'm looking through a lot of water, and for that reason I'd like it to be a bit clearer. I'm also thinking about using a filter sock on the return to the sump.

Regarding the ozonizer, I was reading Randy's articles and it sounded like you could just purchase a slightly larger one and not bother with the air dryer. Anything that needs the kind of maintenance an air drier would require I'm not sure I want to mess with.

[Calciumbuf]

Ed Im using the Luft pump

[Yaktop]

Ed Im using the Luft pump

thats the right pump to? you just cant have enough organics for the ozone to combat I guess. you should sell it to greg then :D

[ReeferMedic]

Ed, I've been using the...G-4 I think it's called.

You have an ASM G-6 sir.;) How high do you have your skimmer? I have mine so the water line is just at the handles on the pumps. Weird that you had to shut one pump off after the mesh mods.

[RichConley]

You have an ASM G-6 sir.;) How high do you have your skimmer? I have mine so the water line is just at the handles on the pumps. Weird that you had to shut one pump off after the mesh mods.

The neck is too small to handle 3 meshmodded pumps.

Greg, that still seems like too small of a skimmer for that size tank.


As to ozone, when I was using it on my 58, I was running about 5mg/hr, on a controller, and it was keeping the orp pegged at 400. It really doesnt take a whole lot to get the job done. I run a Sander Certizon.

[JD46]

I am using a Sander ozoniser with a Milwaulkee ORP controller on my 180. I do not use a dryer before the unit and inject directly into the skimmer. The skimmer water runs over carbon as it exits the skimmer. I also have the skimmer rigged so that the exiting air runs through carbon. Oddly enough, I had bought an air pump to push ozone into the skimmer but found that the draw from the skimmer pump was more than enough.

I have a very noticeable change in the skimmate produced when I am running ozone and when I am not. When I am not, the skimmate is vary dark and almost chunky. With ozone, it is thinner, more watery, and a lighter color. I do not know what this means exactly, but figured that I would add it as a difference.

In researching ozone, I saw that a lot of people were buying large, unadjustable generators. The larger units are not much more expensive than smaller units and the unadjustable units are cheaper in general. I think that ozone is one of those things that can be used well in moderation but too much of a good things can spell disaster.

JD

[Yaktop]

The neck is too small to handle 3 meshmodded pumps.

Greg, that still seems like too small of a skimmer for that size tank.




ASM G-6 is rated for 1,200 gallons though.

[ReeferMedic]

Greg, that still seems like too small of a skimmer for that size tank.

Funny, it seems to work well with all 3 of mine with the mesh mods.:rolleyes: I also have ozone running with a controller through one of the Sedras.

I think I'm going to try the filter sock also Greg. I get a ton of detritis build up on the bottom of my sump. Lately I'm having trouble keeping the orp reading over 320 or so.

[Greg Hiller]

Don, thanks for clearing that up on my equipment. I think I'm losing it. :) When I had all 3 pumps on the skimmer I put the outflow tube to the lowest position and still the foam was flowing out really fast. I currently have it adjusted so that when brown goop forms in the skimmer, 90% of it is in the cup.

JD46

>I am using a Sander ozoniser with a Milwaulkee ORP controller on my 180. <

is there only one size of Sander? Is this the model folks recommend?

[Calciumbuf]

From all the reading I have been doing The sanders unit is the better unit out there, Its also servicable, It comes in sizes up to 300mg, down side is your going to need a seperate controller to run it like a pinpoint or such.
As a side note after talking to some west coast friends it seems that the red sea units output is rated at ideal situations ( extremely low humidity) and even with an air dryer do not reach max output in humid conditions , I think this is my problem ( althought that may not be as noticable on smaller systems), That said I'm probably going to bite the bullet and get the sanders unit with a controller.

[JD46]

Greg,

No, Sander Ozonisers come in a number of sizes. I have a 100 mg/hr unit. Just for reference, here is a link to one place that carries them which shows all of the models/sizes.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/7935/cid/1980

The problem with Sander units is that they cost so much. But, apparently, they last forever. And, I think that all of the higher rated brands are in this same price range. Ozotech was the other brand that many seemed to recommend. The Sander model that I have is an older one that I picked up off of EBay for a much more reasonable price.

The adjustable units are nice because you can run at a lower, continuous ozone levels rather than completely relying on the ORP controller to shut it on and off. There had been a lot of discussion about new Chinese units (Enaly I think). To be honest, I have not kept up with the reviews of these units. But, they are not adjustable and I could stop thinking about the old "you get what you pay for" theory.

JD

[Aquaman_68]

Contact time is very important on an ozonizer. 03 is very unstable. Jim, If your smelling ozone than your unit is producing enough of it. Problem is the contact time with the water is very little & that may be your problem. How high do you have your luft pump driving air? If your over 2 than your pushing too much air. (that is into the ozone port on the pm bullet) The other usual cause could in fact be the air dryer being saturated with too much moisture. A way to combat this is to DIY your own air dryer out of acrylic. Lets say 2500 grams or more to help lengthen the amount of time between servicing. Or you can buy multiple 500 gram dryers & switch them out every couple days. That is if you have such a moisture problem. Once the color starts to shift to pink even slightly the dryer is already spent. I don't think the sander unit is your answer. One last one I've read & only experinced with my reactor. If you push too much ozone you can have a reverse effect & can cause the orp to drop. (turning bromide into hypo bromide which is far more toxic & unstable)Ed & I have used the 200mg with no ill effects & with great outcome. I was able to bring my orp over 400mv (I went a little too high on the first day on account to a bad orp probe. One thing I can say from my experience...Jim you can agree with this logic....Have multiple orp probes/meters running in the system to see if & when one shifts. usually if your running one you don't know it's off until it is too late & the damage is done. OT I have experienced, when dripping Kalk, issues with my probes & the calibration shifting quicker than normal...Not sure if it is to residual carbonate from the kalk dripping... Never experienced it before using or dripping kalk at night during the top off peiod when the lights are off. (to keep the ph more stable from the nightime shift)

[RichConley]

Greg, I got my Sander C50 on ebay for like $25. I was missing the cord (DC 12v wallwart), which is why it was so cheap, but theyre regularly on ebay.

[reefkeeper2]

Are there other benifits to using ozone other than improving clarity of the water?

[JayM]

Are there other benifits to using ozone other than improving clarity of the water?

higher quantities of dissolved 02......

[reefkeeper2]

I just read Randys articles on ozone and his conclusions were that O2 levels were not significantly affected. It sure did clear up his water though.

[Sean Irwin]

Be Safe...For those using ozone make sure the area is really well ventilated ozone is not very friendly to our lungs. I didn't read the article but you would never expect to see it noticeably increase O2 if you run it through a skimmer since since the water volume moving through it is relatively small and the majority of the excess O2 will be released into the air. I have read that some people add hydrogen peroxide instead of ozone. I would be very concerned about contaminants (stabalizers and the like) and over dosing though.

[MikeG]

Would you expect ozone levels to change much as a tank matures? I had also debated running ozone on my new tank and since I had an aquacontroller, I bought the ORP probe so I could control that as well. The tank has been going for about 2 months and the rock was curing since March. My ORP stays at about 400-415 with no intervention. The only time it changes is with my water changes and it will drop to about 250-300 and climb back up over the next 4-5 days.

[Calciumbuf]

Would you expect ozone levels to change much as a tank matures? I had also debated running ozone on my new tank and since I had an aquacontroller, I bought the ORP probe so I could control that as well. The tank has been going for about 2 months and the rock was curing since March. My ORP stays at about 400-415 with no intervention. The only time it changes is with my water changes and it will drop to about 250-300 and climb back up over the next 4-5 days.

You might want to clean your orp probe it is highly unlikely that your orp is truly 400-415 without the addition of ozone, Typically a well maintaned healthy reef tank will run around 300-320. I actually soak my probe once a week in vinegar for 15 min to keep it accurate.

[Yaktop]

I actually soak my probe once a week in vinegar for 15 min to keep it accurate.

do you then calibrate it? if you dont how do you know its accurate? no being a wise guy, serious. I dont clean it that often and dont pay much attention to the reading other than if it shifts, then I start looking for why it might had shifted. rather like a barometer it should stay reasonably stable unless something changes.

[Calciumbuf]

Once a month I'll use a standard to check Ed, I use to check with a standard after the soak but found it to never really shift, usually when it gets dirty the reading climbs.

[MikeG]

do you then calibrate it? if you dont how do you know its accurate? no being a wise guy, serious. I dont clean it that often and dont pay much attention to the reading other than if it shifts, then I start looking for why it might had shifted. rather like a barometer it should stay reasonably stable unless something changes.
I will try to clean it and compare to my standard solution.

[Greg Hiller]

I finally received my ORP probe. No ORP standard with it....pretty annoying!

[Calciumbuf]

Yep thats the way mine have always come to, Your right Greg it is rather annoying.

[RichConley]

do you then calibrate it? if you dont how do you know its accurate? no being a wise guy, serious. I dont clean it that often and dont pay much attention to the reading other than if it shifts, then I start looking for why it might had shifted. rather like a barometer it should stay reasonably stable unless something changes.



They dont need to be calibrated.

Orp probes need to be cleaned every 5 or 6 days. Coraline/Ca/etc really mess them up.

If you're just looking for shifts in it, its probably not an issue that its not accurate. If you're using it to dose ozone, it is. Luckily, they read high when they get dirty, so you'll never overdose because of a dirty probe.