calc precipitating out?

[BOSTONBAKEDBEAN]

levels to start
my mag is up from 1450-1500 alk was low about 5-6dhk getting it back around 9 or 10 also my calc is on the high side about 500 1 old test and one new test.
as i add alk supplement I'm getting cloudy water for about an hour then it goes away. is this norm? nothing seems bothered just would like to know whats happening. The cloudiness only happens as i increase alk, and the alk seems to be strugling to go up.
thanks in advance.

[naturebatslast]

What do you use for alk and Ca?

[BOSTONBAKEDBEAN]

Randy's 2prt i just learned that the baking can cause the clouding so im switching to reef builder from sea chem to drip to get it up. if this sounds right?
about the baking soda clouding the water.
thanks

[naturebatslast]

I've used baking soda in the past, but personally never ran into the problem with clouding. Maybe it was added too quickly or a little too much?
When I was using the 2 part, I did find I had more trouble than usual and had to chase my alk and Ca around. The reef chemistry calculators helped me alot... (here (http://reef.diesyst.com/)). Some have no trouble with it, but I wound up switching to kalk just out of simplicity for myself.

[BOSTONBAKEDBEAN]

ive been fine for months with the 2 part, just seems to be funkey if trying to get low levels up. i was away for a week hence the alk drop.
i think ill stay on 2 part for daily, but use the reef builder for larger additions.
thanks!

[TomD]

When I add the ALK part of Randy's it is cloudy when it hits the water but as soon as it hits, I stir it with something and it mixes in real fast.

[BOSTONBAKEDBEAN]

hey tom.. i usually add it way back in my sump so it goes through some slow-violent mixing. but the whole tank actually clouds pretty badly like 7-8" visibility.
as soon as i added the buffer/builder the tank cleared up. Im leaning on the baking soda as a culprit. Possibly a tip if you need to boost the alk a bunch to do it slower than i was "blush"

[TomD]

The most I have added is a cup at one time. You using a lot more than that at once?

[Greg Hiller]

>i usually add it way back in my sump so it goes through some slow-violent mixing. but the whole tank actually clouds pretty badly like 7-8" visibility.<

You should not be having that type of clouding. It sounds like you are adding too much at once. The clouding should be only in the area that it's added, and only for a few seconds until it's dispersed.

[jimmyj7090]

Given that the Ca is at 500, would it be easier/less stressful on the tank inhabitants to just make corrections via water changes? For example, mix up %25 worth of new water with the Alk raised up to 10dkh or so and the Ca left low (as it is in most salt mixes), then do that %25 water change.

I may be totally wrong here, but I'd think with the Ca that high, you probably couldn't add much alk supplement without causing precipitation?

[randoma]

I thought the Calcium would only precipitate out if the Calcium was high and alk was not? Isn't the important part to have 'balanced' concentrations?

[jimmyj7090]

The precipitation is happening when the alk is dosed.

Maybe a bit simplistic, but I often mentally refer to Calfo's marbles in a jar analogy;
take a jar, fill is with marbles, half red, half white. Add more of one color and something has to spill out.

If the Ca is high and the alk low, the marbles balance out (sort of), but it you try to bring the alk up without the Ca going down, some marbles will spill out (precipitation).

Please correct me if I'm wrong, after all I did fail high school chem.....

[BOSTONBAKEDBEAN]

wasn't adding it fast at all maby double my norm dose in one day trying to slowly get things up.. although all sighs point to too much. getting of the baking soda for a bit n going back to sea chem.

as extra measures added a few powerheads to the sump just in case i was getting build up ect. seems fine for now. ad did a 20% nsw change for good measures

thanks again.

[randoma]

JimmyJ7090 - the problem I have with the marble analogy is, if you have a balanced solution, you can have way more of both Calcium and Alk. For example, the output of a Calcium reactor...

That said, I'm pretty sure I failed high school chem, or at least I don't remember anything of it! :eek:

[jimmyj7090]

At some point the bowl is just full.

IIRC the precipitation is happening when adding just the alk part of a 2 part, not both parts.

[Greg Hiller]

>I thought the Calcium would only precipitate out if the Calcium was high and alk was not? Isn't the important part to have 'balanced' concentrations?<

In general for precipitation to occur you need both high calcium and alkalinity. Keep in mind, what is precipitating out is calcium carbonate (CaCO3), you need both the Ca (calcium, what our kits measure) and the CO3 (carbonate, which is...kind of what our alkalinity kits measure). Having high pH on top of that, or 'clean' surfaces like new sand, can speed up the precipitation.

Just in the FWIW category, my understanding is that even in the natural ocean, calcium and carbonate are in a super saturated state under normal conditions. This means that over time they are always precipitating....but....apparently under normal conditions the precipitation is VERY slow. Corals within their tissues just 'nudge' the conditions in such a way that they calcium carbonate precipitates out and allows them to put down skeleton.