Upgrade to MH???

[TMK]

Greetings all...

I'm thinking about upgrading my lighting from VHO to MH. I have a 55 gallon display tank,which is currently illuminated by 4 110W 48" VHO bulbs... two daylight, two actinic. I'd like to keep some SPS and other reef inhabitants that typically require MH lighting. I've been doing some reading here on the forum and I think I understand the tradeoffs between 10K, 14K and 20K. I'm leaning towards 10K with supplemental actinics. What isn't clear is, how much wattage is enough for a 55 gallon reef tank? Will two pendants with 250W HQI MH bulbs be sufficent?

Thanks for sharing your expertise!
Tom

[stevenp]

I think (2) 250w MH's will be plenty. Regarding the Kelvin rating, I started out with 10K and ended up switching over to 14K. The 10K's were too white for my taste even with (2) 48" T5 actinics. To each their own though... many people prefer the 10K's over the 14's.

[Behrmon]

2 x 150 should be fine on a 55 as well.

[bbjohngm]

yup 2 x 150 will work, the only thing i can think of that you might want to think about is if you are ever going to upgrade from your 55? if you do, you might want to go ahead and get the 250s and keep them high off the waters surface, this way if you do get a larger tank you wont have to get larger lights too.....just a thought...250s i think is a little overkill for a 55 but it can be done as long as they are a good distance from the surface......that's pretty much exactly what i did when i bought my lights, i figured why buy them twice....worked for me :)

[smcnally]

IMO, 2x250 is way overkill for a 55. I was only running 2x175 and 1x250 on my 125 gal tank and everything grew very well.

[TMK]

Thanks for all the replies...

I was acually considering the possibility of upgrading the tank size someday in the future, and I was looking at the Icecap pendant that can be adjusted to accommodate either 250W or 400W HQI DE bulbs.

Sounds like most agree that 250W is overkill though. Is too much light (watts) a bad thing?

Thanks again,
Tom

[bbjohngm]

just another thought here, if you did get the 250s and we all agree it's pretty much overkill, wouldn't you be able to keep those about 18 inches off the waters surface and in turn transfer less heat to the aquarium and still be able to upgrade quite a bit to a larger tank if you wanted? Wouldn't the biggest downfall simply be the fact that it would cost more to run and buy bulbs? I mean, it is overkill, but couldn't you just rectify that by moving the lights further away? Cost would end up being the only issue maybe....? no? :)

[TMK]

I'm kinda limited in what I can do. The pendants would be about 11"-12" above the tank. I also have only 11" of depth to work with (front to back). You've all got me convinced I should look at 150W pendants. That actually works out a little better. The PFO mini pendant is only 7.5" wide, leaving me 3.5" in which I can hopefully squeeze two T5 actinics.

Here's a photo (when the tank was freshwater) to give you an idea what I'm working with:

[stevenp]

There's guys on Nano-Reef.com who run 400w HQI's over ten gallon aquariums. Extreme overkill? Yes, but it can be done.

I wonder how much more heat a 250 gives off than a 150? If you want to eventually upgrade you may have the right idea.

[Aquaman_68]

There's guys on Nano-Reef.com who run 400w HQI's over ten gallon aquariums. Extreme overkill? Yes, but it can be done.



I think that is soooo :cool:cool!!!!

[nickyblase]

If it were me, I'd do a single 250W (14 or 15k depending on the brand). 20k you don't get much growth, and 10k (IMHO) are too white. That's all personal preference though.

One big thing to keep in mind though, esp. this time of year is how much heat these babies are going to put off. Do you run a chiller, or have a basement sump? A single 250W should be manageable, but 2x250 would definitely get hot under there. I've never run 2x150, so I can't attest to what kind of heat that would be.

[TMK]

Thanks again for all your replies...

I do not have a chiller, but I do have a basement sump (20G) to which I am in the process of adding a 29G refugium (in the basement). Should have plenty of water in the basement. I keep a watchful eye on the temp, and insist that my wife close up the house and put the air conditioner on when the tank temp starts creeping up towards 80. I'm sure you can imagine how happy it makes her to have the reef tank dictating when the A/C is on. I normally run about 77.5 or so with the lights on. The VHOs put out about 440W, so they're not exactly "cool". If you look at the pic I posted though, you'll see that there is no ventilation when that top cover is closed. I've been thinking about putting a couple vents at the top of the whole enclosure to give the heat somewhere to go.

Tom

[bbjohngm]

if it was me I'd simply cut a hole through the wall and install a dryer vent attach duct and a fan and your heat can get blown right outside lol problem solved...if that is an outside wall I see?.....

[smcnally]

There's guys on Nano-Reef.com who run 400w HQI's over ten gallon aquariums. Extreme overkill? Yes, but it can be done.

I wonder how much more heat a 250 gives off than a 150? If you want to eventually upgrade you may have the right idea.

He's actually only been doing this for about a week and the light is pretty high off the tank. Personally I think his "study" is lame, but that is just my opinion. He's acting like he's doing this big study that will prove that there is no such thing as "too much light" which we all know is a load of crap.

[TMK]

It is indeed an outside wall... and I actually considered doing exactly that! The only thing that stopped me was the noise from the fan. With a basement sump, I've already got some noise issues with rushing water running down the pipes to the basement... adding the noise of a fan is not going to make the wife happy.

I'm pretty fortunate in that she really enjoys the reef tank, and never complains about me spending money for new corals or anything else that improves the reef's health and look. I really don't want to do anything to jeopardize that.

That display tank faces our kitchen, so we're always in there, and the tank has become the center of attention, which is great. I don't want fan noise to be the center of attention.

I'm thinking some passive vents up top will help... and with the extra gallons in the basement when the refugium is up and running (this week I hope), I'm hoping I'll be OK with two 150s or 250s hanging over the tank.

I should get a new pic of the reef tank... I keep using the old fresh water tank as an example of my setup.

Thanks again for the ideas/help.

Tom

[jimmyj7090]

"I was acually considering the possibility of upgrading the tank size someday in the future, and I was looking at the Icecap pendant that can be adjusted to accommodate either 250W or 400W HQI DE bulbs."

Unless some new technology has come out reccently the 400W DE lamps are pretty much useless. From what I've gathered, the bulbs that are being made are of poor quality, and no one makes a 400W "HQI" ballast. What is being made is "standard" 400W bulbs but in a double ended glass envelope.

(The reason everyone jumped on HQI/DE lamps when they came out is because they looked awsome in terms of focused output, This was because the "HQI" ballasts put out a lot more juice than normal ballasts - and the DE reflectors are/can be very efficient. In the end, more juice in, more light out. The 400W ballasts you CAN get, are standard 400W and not "HQI 400W)

In the end, if you might want to go 400W down the road, IMO your better off just going with a SE set up. This way pendants and sockets are the same for 175-400W, you just need to change ballasts and bulbs.

I'd agree that 2x150W DE or 2x175 SE ought to be fine for a 55G. And yea, heat will be the enemy so be prepared.

[stevenp]

He's actually only been doing this for about a week and the light is pretty high off the tank. Personally I think his "study" is lame, but that is just my opinion. He's acting like he's doing this big study that will prove that there is no such thing as "too much light" which we all know is a load of crap.

Steve, not sure if I follow you here. I was quoting from memory. I recall seeing more than one person putting an exorbitant amount of light over a nano. It may not have been a 10 gallon; it may have been a 20 gallon but who's counting really when you're talking tanks that small.

At the end of the day, x2 250MH is fine over a 55g IMO, esp if you're looking to upgrade in the near future, and providing you can manage the heat.

[smcnally]

I thought you were talking about the guy in this thread http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112734&hl=

[grundig5]

Another thing to consider is the amount of electricity used by 2x250 versus 2x150. An extra 200 watts of power roughly 10 hours per day is significant over the course of a year (in my case, that would equate to $22 per month extra).

[jbundas]

Speaking from experience with my 180 built-in running 3x250w, heat will be an issue running any MHs over your tank. I have to keep the door to the tank closet open with a large floor fan blowing in and the house AC set to 74 to keep my tank from getting much over 82F during the day. I'm not plumbed to the basement yet which I'm sure helps, but it looks like your built-in space is quite a bit smaller than mine unless there's a room behind the tank - it'll heat up quick, especially if you have the ballasts in there too. Try to put them in the basement if you can.

If it was me, I'd go with the lower power to save the on the heat issue. What's the likelihood you're gonna upgrade a built-in tank anytime soon anyway, and you can always find a buyer for used lighting systems here if you want to change.

I'd also continue to consider the direct venting outside. I'll be doing the same thing when I get around to it. It sucks to have to beat on your AC all day long to pull heat and humidity out of your home when you can just blow it out through the wall. You don't need a jet turbine sized fan either - a little bit of air movement goes a long way. I'm sure you can find something quiet enough that you'd never hear it over the normal noise of your tank.

-J

[Sean Irwin]

I agree with Steve. There is such a thing as too much light. All corals photo-saturate at some point so any additional light is wasted. Photo-saturation can cause longterm detriment to both the symbiotic algae and host with affects ranging from reduced growth (as a minimum) to death. There's a fairly significant treatment of the subject in several articles at advancedaquarist.com and I touch upon some of it in my review (located in this forum).