Dowflake variations???

[LuckyReefer]

I was looking up some dowflake info and found this. http://www.dow.com/calcium/product/

It seems there are different grades of this stuff? Some have higher concentrations of calcium chloride? Does anyone have any experience with the higher concentration products? Such as the Dowflake xtra? Do you think that it would be better suited usage in the home aquarium? Are these products available for retail purchase?

Thanks, Mark

[Greg Hiller]

The level of calcium chloride should not be a reason to buy one over another unless there is a price difference based on lb of actual anhydrous calcium chloride per dollar. If there is less calcium then you just use more. All it means is that there are more water molecules of hydration (in other words it was not dried as much).

[LuckyReefer]

Ahh.. I see, but I would think that the (food Grade) would be better for our application. Just based on the quality standards that are given to food grade products.

[Greg Hiller]

Yes, food grade is certainly a safer bet.

[SaltCreep]

Anyone ever used PELADOW™ ?

[SaltCreep]

It's just calcium chloride right?


Anyone?

:o

[Cheetos]

I used to use peladow when i was dosing...it's just dowflake in pellet form. If I remember correctly, the amounts for mixing it are to use 20% less than the recipe for dowflake. Here is the link:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

[SaltCreep]

Hurray for Cheetos ! :D


Boooo for Saltcreep, who failed to search properly.:rolleyes:

thanks.

[Bobbofin]

I use SeaChem Advantage Calcium w/strontium and mag and Reef Builder. Both are dry so you a lot of bang for your buck. Plus you don't have to worry about impurities. I'm sure the have strict standards for the purity of driveway ice melter. I'd rather not take the chance.

[TomD]

Bob, so many of us have been doing this with 0 issues and no offense but your tank is small so it is like comparing apples to oranges as far as cost-benefit.

[Bobbofin]

like I said, I'd rather not take the chance. I see what you mean Tom concerning cost. I found it a hassle to mix the 2 part for only a 30 gallon cube when I can buy a year's supply of Advantage Calcium and Reef Builder for $50. Just voicing my opinion.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Every grade of calcium chloride from Dow, including food grades have exactly the same newly raised bromide levels.

Plus you don't have to worry about impurities.

I'm glad you don't worry. IMO, they do not have a stellar track record with their chemistry issues (excessive borate in salt mixes, unbalanced magnesium supplement despite claims otherwise, inaccurate borate test kit, etc), and so I do not have such confidence.

[pvh]

Randy, so what do you recommend as a replacement for the 2 parts or Seachem?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I dose limewater, myself.

I generally trust B-ionic but have seen no tests on it. The two part solutions company may be using old stockpiled bags of Dowflake ( www.twopartsolution.com ). FWIW, I have no relationship with them aside from the fact that they use my recipe. In fact, I have no financial or other relationship with any company anywhere aside from Genzyme. :D

It is possible that other companies (many refer to Tetra) may sell suitably pure calcium chloride from different processes.

[chew*]

Hmmm I use Kalk and use b-ionic to correct levels when needed and boost the MG with ESV in IO salt............

Everyone thinks i'm crazy however and has slammmed me at the mere mention that Icemelt could be potentially bad for a tank. He who laughs last laughs best......

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

He who laughs last laughs best......

Huh? Perhaps others are not as wealthy as you, and need to save money. Or perhaps they are just not as conservative as you.

So you laugh when a demonstrably good option is taken away from them?

Seems twisted to me.. :(

[smithcreek]

So you laugh when a demonstrably good option is taken away from them?
It does suck that a proven method is gone, but I'm not too worried. I read the threads over on RC going back to July and the quote that sticks in my mind I think was from the guy that runs twopartsolution.com. He basically said that resourceful reefers would find another source. May not be as easy as going to Home Depot, but I'm sure it will work out in the end.

For me I'm just going to rely more heavily on Mrs. Wages, opps, sorry, I mean, Kalkwasser and just use additives for correcting imbalances. My 1/2 bag of Dowflake should last a good long time at that rate, at least long enough until someone finds a new source.

Thanks Randy.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

FWIW, I've always used limewater on my system. I only use Dowflake and MAG flake to boost my starting IO (70 and 150 ppm respectively) for water changes (1% daily or so).

[Liam]

Hmmm I use Kalk and use b-ionic to correct levels when needed and boost the MG with ESV in IO salt............

Everyone thinks i'm crazy however and has slammmed me at the mere mention that Icemelt could be potentially bad for a tank. He who laughs last laughs best......

limewater is fine if you have a softy tank or a small tank with a few sps.
But IME if you have a large fully loaded sps tank limewater alone cannot keep up.
It seems calcium reactors are the best option for folks with high calcium/alk demand for the time being.
i expect it will be some time before a proven suitable,cheap alternative can be gaurunteed reef safe.
As i recall(correct me if i am wrong randy) Randy has a relatively low calcium/alkalinity demand system and that is why limewater works perfectly for him.
the problems with dosing just limewater on a high demand system is that when you add limewater you are also adding volume to your system,and if you are not evaporating high amounts of fresh water,you cannot accomodate the dosing.
Also heavy continual dosing could cause ph problems,and accidental overdose can be severe quickly.
JMHO, i am sure randy will put me straight if i am wrong:)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That is quite true. Some folks may have demand that outstrips the ability of limewater to satisfy it. A two part or a CaCO3/CO2 reactor (with or without limewater) are likely better options for them.

[ReeferMedic]

I have a heavily sps dominated system, and no way would lime water keep up. I run kalk for 16 hours a day for 100% top off, and I still need to boost my calcium and alkilinity along with magnesium. I also run a large calcium reactor which holds over 30 pounds of media. My calcium reactor was OOS for 2 times for a few weeks each time. I had to dose almost 1 quart each of calcium and alkilinity(2 part)daily. That would have eaten through my wallet in short time if I were dosing B Ionic. Both times I was waiting for sub par customer service to replace the pump on my reactor. It probably would be much cheaper for me to buy a new pump in that instance if I were dosing B Ionic. This stuff has saved me on more than one occasion. Thanks again Randy! You've saved reefers lots o' $$ with the 3 part system(mg,ca,kh)you came up with. I agree with smithcreek, someone somewhere will probably find another source.

He who laughs last laughs best......

This comment really has no place on these boards. :rolleyes: I just don't get the whole thought process here.

[randoma]

What ReeferMedic said..

[smpross]

Ok... I am just going to chime in here...
I have never met Randy, but I am familar with his work from other reefers and his writings. I know that his two part solution has been well tested by the reefers in this club and many others. Why are some people attempting to belittle a fantastic resource that has given so much of his knowledge to the hobby. You know medical doctors are providing prescription medication to patients for uses that it was never intended for. Just ask the Buffalo Bill's Football player Chris Everett. He is walking because a Doctor worked outside of the box. Some people feel that if they do not pay top price for things, it was not worth it. All I would say is to consider the person giving the message. In this case, I think that Randy has more than proven his knowledge as an asset to our hobby.

Thanks Randy.

[smcnally]

please keep it on the subject

[chew*]

Sorry reefermedic but it was I that got slammed at the mere mention that icemelt might be hazardous to a reeftank and that I do not trust sources that invoke the "subject to change without notice" fine print .........now the shoes on the other foot.....and people are taking offense.....to bad......

As far as wealthy randy, actually atm far from it....I broke down my main display due to a death of a best friend and now am supporting his mother, girlfriend and 2 kids........+ plus paying the mortgage of a 2 family house and supporting my household.

Now don't you wish you didn't go there.....

As far as you guys complaining about not keeping up with needs the solution is simple, CA reactor or 2 ca reactors + kalk reactor.

P.S.
If you can't keep up with the financial needs of a reef then you should probably not have one.......or as big of one.........


Off topic discussion removed

[delta]

Lets get back to Dowflakes, Enough of the back and forth.

Also try and remember it is the Holiday Season and treat each other accordingly :)

[stingythingy45]

It's the American way to find a cheaper way of doing things.
After all........it forged a nation.



CHINA.....lol


Sorry....just had to lighten things up a little.

[Cheetos]

Off topic discussion removed

[ReeferMedic]

As far as wealthy randy, actually atm far from it....I broke down my main display due to a death of a best friend and now am supporting his mother, girlfriend and 2 kids........+ plus paying the mortgage of a 2 family house and supporting my household.

Now don't you wish you didn't go there....


As far as you guys complaining about not keeping up with needs the solution is simple, CA reactor or 2 ca reactors + kalk reactor.




What does this have to do with anything being discussed here? :confused: We all make our choices, you happened to make an honorable one. I've made certain choices in my life that made me miss out on alot of what life has to offer as well as alot of people in this world have. This has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion here though.

To say I should have a smaller system if I don't have the cash for 2 calcium reactors??? You are absolutely killing me! :confused:

[chew*]

He who laughs last laughs best......
Huh? Perhaps others are not as wealthy as you, and need to save money. Or perhaps they are just not as conservative as you.


/\ was just a response.......

Don I know a couple people using 2 CA reactors, its a rather simple solution.....however just a suggestion.....and No i didn't mean it that way, I meant maybe some of us should have smaller systems if we keep finding the need to cut corners..........and If a single CA reactor cant keep up with demands 2 CA reactors most likely could........

[smithcreek]

Sorry reefermedic but it was I that got slammed at the mere mention that icemelt might be hazardous to a reeftank and that I do not trust sources that invoke the "subject to change without notice" fine print .........now the shoes on the other foot.....and people are taking offense.....to bad......

Have you read Randy's post from the other DowFlake thread?

I tested Dowflake for a couple of dozen impurities, alongside calcium chloride products from Kent (Turbo Calcium and Liquid Calcium), ESV (the B-ionic folks), and Warner Marine.

Purity of Calcium Chloride
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/mar2004/chem.htm

The results show the EXACT SAME impurity profile for the Dowflake, ESV, and Warner materials. I'd go so far as to say they were exactly the same material, although they may have been graded differently by Dow.

I remember reading that way back when I first looked into Ca, Alk and Mag issues. My impression was that the labeled CA products like B-Ionic by ESV were putting DowFlake in their products, so why spend more? Plus, they didn't change without warning. If they did we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[chew*]

Looks like that may have been from 2004, the problem appears to have arrived in 2005, and i highly doubt that since dow did change with a warning that they would continue to use it.........Like i have said before ESV has alot more to lose from having its name trampled in reef forums than icemelt manufacturers..........


Also note it's now 2007 the warning was issued in 2005 from my understanding, alot of good it did.......I was getting told in 2007 i was crazy and its perfectly safe.........here's a refresher it was 9/07 http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51601&highlight=2+part

[dz6t]

I use SeaChem Advantage Calcium w/strontium and mag and Reef Builder. Both are dry so you a lot of bang for your buck. .

if you assume SeaChem dry additives give you a lot of bang of your buck, think again!

I stop using their dry additive after I found out that they put regular sodium chloride as filler (large amount of it).

Let me give you an example, the 1 kg dry strontium suppliment actually mostly consists of table salt with some strontium chloride mixed in.

[chew*]

I will agree that seachem is a poor choice, namely from my trace elements quest/research. I don't trust they're product........there form of trace elements lists copper as one of the ingredients..........albeit a small amount i'll pass.......

[dz6t]

Seachem Reef Builder is mostly baking soda. Which is about $7 per 12 lbs food grade from Costco. Or you can pay Seachem $$$ to have it repackaged.

[chew*]

Dz6t i'm assuming seachem reefbuilder is the same thing as kent coral builder?

[dz6t]

Dz6t i'm assuming seachem reefbuilder is the same thing as kent coral builder?

I am not sure because I never use the Kent product.

[dz6t]

Precautions:
Contains carbonate, and bicarbonate salts. Do not taste, swallow or breathe. If in eyes, immediately flush with water for 15 minutes. If ingested, drink water. Call a physician immediately! Contact with skin may cause irritation. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN!

Looks like it is a blend of Sodium Carbonate and baking soda.

[chew*]

contains carbonate and bicarbonate salts.......at least that's what the label says, I bought it for adjustment purposes of new water but never needed it or used it...........I'm guessing its similar if not the same......

Lol you beat me to it.......

[dz6t]

These products are good for people who keep small tanks and don't care about reef related chemistry.

Dow is THE supplier of Calcium Chloride. I am not sure company like ESV, Kent or SeaChem can get away using Dow's product.

[chew*]

Honestly i have no clue whats in the bottle of b-ionic, I do know however they're magnesium is not derived from magflake.....I rarely use the 2 part anyway, I've gotten preety good with dialing in my kalk......It does suck for other people however that need it(dow) for more than just correction purposes....and can't get enough kalk in to sustain levels due to it's limitations.

I'm wondering how much more it costs to run a CA reactor or 2 CA reactors over dosing the 2 parts, obviously initial investment is going to be rather high...

[dz6t]

you can tell if your bag of Dowflake has the increase Bromide level. The lot # should end with the letters "PC".

[TomD]

All I know is this....I am VERY thankful that Randy came up with this originally. It has saved me a lot of money and made things real simple.

I now have a mostly LPS dominated system and I can't see the need for a reactor. I agree with most too, that someone will figure something out.

Maybe Greg is right that with regular wc's it will not even be an issue. Problem for me is for 2 years this has been my sole method and I never had an issue.

Chew, your comment on whether somebody can afford a reactor and being in the hobby and all that is also off topic fwiw. I am in college and paying for it all by myself and trying to get into law school. So no, I don't want a reactor or to raise my electric bill now. That doesn't mean I should rip down my 90.

Just to repeat, if anybody is REALLY in a bind and has no other method setup, I have enough to last me a while.

[JCheung]

How about damprid? It's also calcium chloride and people are using it for their tanks without any problems.

[chew*]

I did not know that offering solutions to a problem that has arrived was off topic.......No one said solutions were supposed to be disireable, I had a problem I came up with a solution, I didn't like it but................it was solution none the less.......

[Reef55]

I emailed twopartsolution.com regarding bromide levels in the dow products. Here is their exact reply:

Mark,


We have been stockpiling calcium chloride with lot numbers predating the December 31, 2006 date on which Dow changed their manufacturing process. There has been a resurgence of a letter dating back to August of 2005 in which Dow first states its intent to change its manufacturing process that would result in an increase in bromide. However, Dow on December 15, 2005, sent out another letter entitled "Addendum to Letter of August 2005: Notification of Impurity Profile Change in Calcium Chloride Products". Item 1 from this letter states:



"The date for ending the bromide removal process, initially scheduled for December 31st of 2005, has changed to December 31, 2006.”



This letter has been linked to earlier, but buried in some of the same threads discussing the bromide issue that have posted the original August 05 letter.



We have been aware of this since starting our business and verified that all Dow we purchased had lot numbers starting with U. Lot numbers starting in U were manufactured in 2006. We have also been stockpiling as much 2006 Dow as possible in order to provide an uninterrupted supply of economical calcium chloride to our fellow reefers. This also allows us time to source an alternative source.



As a last note, we use our products in our own tanks. If we didn’t think a product was safe enough for our own use we wouldn’t sell it to others.



Let me know if you have any further questions.



Andrew Duneman

Email: andrew@reefchili.com

Fax: 763.546.1720

www.twopartsolution.com

[Reef55]

Here is the original DOW message:

http://www.dow.com/calcium/news/August_2005.pdf

Here is the addendum:

http://www.dow.com/calcium/news/August_2005_add.pdf

[Greg Hiller]

Mark,

>"The date for ending the bromide removal process, initially scheduled for December 31st of 2005, has changed to December 31, 2006.” <

Wow, that's Great news. I didn't know about that part!! Since I imagine it would take some time for the new material to make it's way though the distribution system, there's probably a decent chance that anyone that purchased Dowflake during last years winter season, might have the 'old' good process stuff. Hah...that includes me, since I've certainly not purchased any since last winter.

Regarding my earlier comments in this thread about food grade being okay. When I made those comments I'd not heard anything about this change in process from the letter from Dow. As Randy mentioned before, the food grade stuff also has high bromide, so I don't think it's a good plan to use that instead.


Seems to me that means that

[chew*]

Reef 55 awsome example of doing your homework, I think i'm going to do my part now and email ESV. Curiosity makes me wonder......

let's see what they say...........if they even reply.....

This email is in regards to the source that you get your calcium chloride from,

Concerns to be noted can be found in these threads on boston reefers society

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54793
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56321

and also in threads found on reef central. It has come to our attention and has been known for some time that dead sea works is "the" supplier of calcium chloride whether it be for icemelt purposes ,food grade, or reeftank use.

It has also come to our attention that they have now issued a warning of elevated bromide levels. (actually issued in august 2005) and that the elevated levels can be found in batches dated after December 31, 2006

After randy holmes testing in 2004 the general concensus is/was under impression that the calcium chloride found in most competitors 2 parts (including b-ionic) were indeed from the same source (dead sea works)

My question is not for you to relay your source but more or less to put people minds at ease as to whether or not E.S.V. knows about this and has taken steps to find a source that is considered safe without elevated levels of Bromide or employed some type of method to remove the elevated levels of bromide that are not considered safe......

Please keep in mind that eventually someone will likely test this, or send samples out for testing so credibility of what is said is at stake here...............

Thx for your time.........

Brian

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Wow, that's Great news. I didn't know about that part!! Since I imagine it would take some time for the new material to make it's way though the distribution system, there's probably a decent chance that anyone that purchased Dowflake during last years winter season, might have the 'old' good process stuff. Hah...that includes me, since I've certainly not purchased any since last winter.


FWIW, the prechange material is staill available for sale in some parts of the country, Checking the code on local packages might well be worthwhile, although the case I know of is not local.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

After randy holmes testing in 2004 the general concensus is/was under impression that the calcium chloride found in most competitors 2 parts (including b-ionic) were indeed from the same source (dead sea works)

That should read Dow, not Dead Sea Works. :)

[chew*]

After randy holmes testing in 2004 the general concensus is/was under impression that the calcium chloride found in most competitors 2 parts (including b-ionic) were indeed from the same source (dead sea works)

That should read Dow, not Dead Sea Works. :)

Oops isn't deadseaworks "the" source or mother company of DOW?

If not i hope they get the point and have some form of response......

[delta]

Oops isn't deadseaworks "the" source or mother company of DOW?

If not i hope they get the point and have some form of response......

Nope they make Magflake and the chemical grade magnesuim chloride we did a group buy on a year or so ago.

[Greg Hiller]

>Oops isn't deadseaworks "the" source or mother company of DOW?<

NO!

Please stop repeating that. DOW is Dow, I should know I worked for them for 2 1/2 years. Dow used to get, and I presume they still get, much of their brine (that they use to make calcium chloride) from brine wells in Midland, Michgan and the surrounding area. As I recall that brine source had lots of bromide in it. The bromide was a very useful raw material used for a bunch of different chemical processes. Including a plant that I worked in that made a flame retardant. Maybe they get their brine from lots of other areas as well now, I don't know.

The Dead Sea Works gets their starting material from....can you guess?....the Dead Sea (that's over in the mideast, BTW). The water of the Dead Sea is extremly concentrated in many chemicals, magnesium being one of them. So it's probably a lot easier to purify from that raw material. According to Wikipedia, if you evaporate off the water from a sample of water from the Dead Sea you end up with about 51% magnesium chloride.

So, to recap:

At least for the purposes of these discussions:

Dow makes Dowflake and a bunch of other brands of calcium chloride.

Dead Sea Works makes magnesium chloride (MAG flake).

[garyl]

"We have been aware of this since starting our business and verified that all Dow we purchased had lot numbers starting with U. Lot numbers starting in U were manufactured in 2006. We have also been stockpiling as much 2006 Dow as possible in order to provide an uninterrupted supply of economical calcium chloride to our fellow reefers. This also allows us time to source an alternative source."

I can't find a lot number on my bags that I purchased at the Home depot in Worcester by the Greendale mall, but I did find a date (clearly marked) of 03/25/2006 - so I guess my bags beat the change. For what it's worth, there were a lot of bags left 2 weeks ago.

Gary

[dedfish]

Can anyone tell us where to find the lot number on the bags we have? I just bought a bag recently in Waltham and I've looked all over the bag. There are several numbers in different places. The only thing that I can find that looks like a date says 11/19/04.

Thanks

[dz6t]

There is a good chance that all Dowflake we have are pre-dated 12/31/06.

By the way, Dow is a BIG company and it is the mothership of chemical.

Dead sea work? They are not good enough to supply chemical to Dow. (jk)

[chew*]

I'm sure they will get the point if not i will resend a corrected letter, oddly enough i noticed this as a product in they're line up.........

http://www.esvco.com/prod12.html

[Liam]

lol,i can see the reefers picking through the bags at homedepot this weekend.
Southdown revisited.

i will LYK if i find some,i just threw my last bag on the driveway:D

[dz6t]

I'm sure they will get the point if not i will resend a corrected letter, oddly enough i noticed this as a product in they're line up.........

http://www.esvco.com/prod12.html

that is a lot of Bromide for the dosage.

May be we all should go search for the new Dowflake.

I told you some people dose Bromide...

[jrmx635]

I guess I'll be the guinne (spelling?) pig here.
I got a bag of dow from home depot about 2 weeks ago.
I have been following this thread since it started and I am still adding dow.
I brought my cacium level from 250ish to 410 and am still adding very little.
I will continue to use and let everyone know if I have and issues.lol

[Liam]

I guess I'll be the guinne (spelling?) pig here.
I got a bag of dow from home depot about 2 weeks ago.
I have been following this thread since it started and I am still adding dow.
I brought my cacium level from 250ish to 410 and am still adding very little.
I will continue to use and let everyone know if I have and issues.lol

could you see any date or batch codes on your bag?

[chew*]

If you guys want ( and don't think i'm supporting the use of it ) I can check the warehouse that we ship mass quantities of every possible brand of icemelt from for older batches.....we have both dowflake and peladow......Give me the code I need to look for as i missed it.....If i can find a couple skids (50 bags to a skid) I will only ask that you replace the bag in question with the bromide tainted newer stuff........

[chew*]

that is a lot of Bromide for the dosage.

May be we all should go search for the new Dowflake.

I told you some people dose Bromide...

I wonder if that product is a result of employing a bromide removal process, thus this product is a byproduct of the removal.

I'n DOW's statement they did state that they were discontinuing they're "bromide removal process" so it's not a matter of if it can be done....

[Liam]

i just went out to my barn and checked the half bag i have left.
the date code is 12/05 so it would definitely seem the supply is in arrears because i bought that bag in early 07

[stingythingy45]

I just checked the date on the bag I bought 2 weeks ago(2-19-04)
Go figure.....

Also says V12600
12-05 on the left side

[Liam]

I just checked the date on the bag I bought 2 weeks ago(2-19-04)
Go figure.....

i don't think thats the date code. thats a manufacturing law code of some sort.
look at the very bottom of the bag on the left if looking from the back of the bag.
the manufacturing batch info is stamped in black ink.
The date you are reading is blue and about half way up on the right and was printed along with the standard bag print.

[stingythingy45]

"We have been aware of this since starting our business and verified that all Dow we purchased had lot numbers starting with U. Lot numbers starting in U were manufactured in 2006."

Ok....fixed that and edited my post.
So which one is a "V" and which one is a "U"?lol

[Liam]

i could'nt interpret anything from the letter codes,based on the info i have read in these threads.

[stingythingy45]

No kidding,I thought I was the only one that noticed twopartsolutions mentions they only bought from lots beggining in "U" from 2005.Then they contradict themselves by saying lots beggining with"U"are 2006.

Is it me?

***Ok,reread it and it's all 2006 stock.***

It's me...

[Greg Hiller]

>oddly enough i noticed this as a product in they're line (Bromide/Flouride supplement) <

Bob Stark started making that product soon after a discussion about bromide and flouride that we had on Compuserve back in the mid-late 90's. It was noted that the makers of IO at the time were not adding bromide or fluoride to their salt mix. Some were noting that if they added bromide back, maybe they weren't seeing as much RTN in Acropora. Tyree was in on this discussion at the time I belive. The IO people I believe at the time said that they were not adding bromide to their mix because they knew lots of people used ozone and were worried about the chemcial reactions that might form harmful compounds. They also said they were not adding flouride because most people were using tap water to make up their saltwater and tap water usually had 1 ppm flouride (for kiddie's teeth), which would bring the water up to about the NSW level of flouride. Of course the bromide probably came along with other chemicals they were using since most of the chemicals used to make salt mixes are probably not all that pure to begin with. They don't really Need to be as long as they are mixed properly so that in the End you end up with pretty close to NSW concentrations of all the elements/compounds.

After the discussion on Compuserve I actually purchased some sodium bromide and flouride as a pure chemicals and was adding them to every batch of IO I mixed up. I did this for many years. I don't know if it made any difference, but I did want my water to be more like NSW. I'm kind of dubious about the 'less RTN' thing. I stopped adding the chemicals a few years back because I think the IO guys changed their formulas.

[dz6t]

I wonder if that product is a result of employing a bromide removal process, thus this product is a byproduct of the removal.

I'n DOW's statement they did state that they were discontinuing they're "bromide removal process" so it's not a matter of if it can be done....

Bromide sources are plentyful. It is not necessary to use the by-product from the bromide removal process.

I guess Dow discontinue the process to cut cost because the elevated bromide level is not critical to many uses of their product.

[Reef55]

Bromide sources are plentyful. It is not necessary to use the by-product from the bromide removal process.

I guess Dow discontinue the process to cut cost because the elevated bromide level is not critical to many uses of their product.

Actually, they used to sell the bromide, which was why it was removed from the calcium chloride. Dow decided to stop selling bromide, so there was no longer a reason to seperate it from the calcium chloride, hence the change.

[dz6t]

Actually, they used to sell the bromide, which was why it was removed from the calcium chloride. Dow decided to stop selling bromide, so there was no longer a reason to seperate it from the calcium chloride, hence the change.

Thanks for the info. That is interesting.

[Jennifer]

I just checked the date on the bag I bought 2 weeks ago(2-19-04)
Go figure.....

Also says V12600
12-05 on the left side

K now I am sad if my assumption is correct. I just checked the bag I bought a few weeks ago and it has a V at the begonning of the #. Since lot U is 2006 that would mean lot V is 2007. Right? How would the elevated bromide levels affect my tank?
Should I just keep shelling out the money for b-ionic?

I knew I should have bought a bag of dowflake last year.

[randoma]

The bag that I'm using, which is over 2 years old also says V10423 and 12-02.. I don't see how it could possibly be the new type since it was purchased in the winter of '05/06. (I used to use it as icemelt, you know....)

[stingythingy45]

K now I am sad if my assumption is correct. I just checked the bag I bought a few weeks ago and it has a V at the begonning of the #. Since lot U is 2006 that would mean lot V is 2007. Right? How would the elevated bromide levels affect my tank?
Should I just keep shelling out the money for b-ionic?

I knew I should have bought a bag of dowflake last year.


I don't know,mine has a "V" at the beginning also.
But it definitely has a date next to that 12-05

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

After the discussion on Compuserve I actually purchased some sodium bromide and flouride as a pure chemicals and was adding them to every batch of IO I mixed up. I did this for many years. I don't know if it made any difference, but I did want my water to be more like NSW. I'm kind of dubious about the 'less RTN' thing. I stopped adding the chemicals a few years back because I think the IO guys changed their formulas.

Did I write that and sign on as you, Greg? I dosed them too, until I talked to Tim Hovanec of Marineland and he told me that IO definately had NSW levels of bromide in it then (and presumably now as well).

[Aquadiva]

Not quite sure which Dowflake thread to post this in, but this seemed like the better of the two.

I found this link about Lot numbering for Dow's soda solution. Not Dowflake, but the Lot number on my bag of dowflake seems to follow since I KNOW my predates the 12/05 date.

http://www.dow.com/causticsoda/qual/lot.htm

My Lot number is: SC08016L

According to the link, this translates to:

2004
March
8th day
Dow USA
**(I am thinking the 6L is specific to Dowflake. Something like plant 6 tank/pile L)**

Take this for what it's worth in deciding when your bag was manufactured. This is a guess on my part so don't take it as anything other.

BTW. If you are one of the folks I have given Dowflake to over the summer, it's from the same batch, so you should be all set. ;)

[Greg Hiller]

>Did I write that and sign on as you, Greg? <

Question is...who started doing it first. :p

[randoma]

My Lot number is: SC08016L



Where exactly did you find that number? I don't see any similar number anywhere on my bag..

[smithcreek]

Where exactly did you find that number? I don't see any similar number anywhere on my bag..

Man, that took me a loooong time to find. Mine is on the side of the bag. I completely missed it because it looks more like a dirt or grease smudge that a printed Lot number. It's actually quite big, it's printed in black about 1" tall. At least I think that's it.

Now I just need to see if I can figure out what it says, my bag has been kicked around and the numbers are hard to read. The only thing I can make out is LOT, after that it's unreadable.

Best I can come up with is UA080010?

[stingythingy45]

I just rechecked and the number on my bag looks like yours,smithcreek.
Althought I must say,a"V" from a "U" would be hard to tell apart.
The numbers show better from a distance.

[dedfish]

my number is unreadable. It had been sliding around the back of my car for a few weeks.

[Aquadiva]

Where exactly did you find that number? I don't see any similar number anywhere on my bag..

11111

[randoma]

Hmm. Mine doesn't have anything even remotely like that. Although it was sitting on our porch for at least a year, so maybe it rubbed off.

[Aquadiva]

The packaging may have changed. This bag has been sitting above my garage for at least two winters. We had a hard time finding it, and when we did, I think we bought 4 bags. Thought we'd use more than we did. :rolleyes: I've given away more than I've actually used. :cool:

Bought these bags in early 05... March maybe. I remember grabbing a bunch because we knew it would disappear for the summer. They could have changed the way they stamp it since then. :confused:

[Jennifer]

wow Pictures speak a thousand words. I rechecked my bag carefully, and there it was clear as day "LOT: TA16016L". DUUUHHHH. Anyway again if assumptions are correct I would guess this bag predates 12/30/06. I hope someone can give me a definate answer. I checked all over the DOW website and could find nothing about Lot #'s or batch codes, etc.

[Jennifer]

K I just reread the thread. If AquaDiva bought her bag in early 05 and The two part web site say they are buying LOt u "06" and earlier means. Assuming Aquadivas bag is left over 04 Lot, Then

LOT: S--------- = 04
LOT: T--------- = 05
LOT: U--------- = 06
LOT: V--------- = 07 (DO NOT USE (Pending more testing")


This all seems logical would you all agree?

[Aquadiva]

K I just reread the thread. If AquaDiva bought her bag in early 05 and The two part web site say they are buying LOt u "06" and earlier means. Assuming Aquadivas bag is left over 04 Lot, Then

LOT: S--------- = 04
LOT: T--------- = 05
LOT: U--------- = 06
LOT: V--------- = 07 (DO NOT USE (Pending more testing")


This all seems logical would you all agree?

I would think so.

[Scott]

Have they been making dowflake for 22 years?

"1986 DOWFLAKE™ calcium chloride plant is constructed in Ludington to replace the idled Midland plant."

(source: http://www.dow.com/facilities/namerica/ludington/about/history.htm )

Pretty darn close.

[Liam]

i don't have that number either,mine must have worn off too.