cheap way to raise magnesium

[jrmx635]

anyone know the cheapest way?
I know there is something about mag fake or something like that but can't seem to find it.
I have a 240 and the mag was at 800's.
Added a $12 bottle of kent mag and I am at 900's
If you do the math it can be expensive to raise and maintain.

[JeremyR]

For one time use do epsom salt.. then maintain with mag chloride from some source (that's what the kent is that you added and most brands, as well as the mag-flake people talk about, but that's at your own risk).

240 gallons x 3.78 liters x 4(number of hundreds you want to raise your mag) /1000 x 2.2= 8 lbs, an approximate total amount of epsom salts required to raise you to 1300 ppm. Add it a pound at a time and retest the next day.

THe formula is: (total gallons x 3.78 x ppm increase/100)/1000 x 2.2= pounds of epsom salts.

[JeremyR]

In smaller tanks you wouldn't add a pound at a time, you would divide up the estimated amount into 3 or 4 doses.

[jrmx635]

awesome,thanks.
I am going to the store now!!

[Jennifer]

For one time use do epsom salt.. then maintain with mag chloride from some source (that's what the kent is that you added and most brands, as well as the mag-flake people talk about, but that's at your own risk).

240 gallons x 3.78 liters x 4(number of hundreds you want to raise your mag) /1000 x 2.2= 8 lbs, an approximate total amount of epsom salts required to raise you to 1300 ppm. Add it a pound at a time and retest the next day.

THe formula is: (total gallons x 3.78 x ppm increase/100)/1000 x 2.2= pounds of epsom salts.

Why only use for a 1 time only?

Check out Randy's info. He uses it all of the time.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php
I have been waiting for the dow flake to show up to take full use of his recipes. Will save me tons of money on additives.

[Greg Hiller]

As Jeremy said, magnesium sulfate should be for a one time use. If your tank is cronicly low in magnesium you should use a mixture of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate as other wise over time your sulfate levels will be way too high compared to chloride. No one knows for sure whether that's a big deal, but it's something that reef animals would never encounter in nature.

[Jennifer]

excerpt from Randy's article.
Recipe #1, Part 3A

Dissolve Epsom salts (3 cups) and magnesium chloride hexahydrate sold by the Dead Sea Works company (5 cups) in enough purified freshwater to make 1 gallon total volume. There will likely be a precipitate that forms even if you fully dissolve both ingredients separately. That precipitate is calcium sulfate (calcium as an impurity in the magnesium chloride and sulfate from the Epsom salts). It is fine and appropriate to dose the precipitate along with the remainder of the fluid by shaking it up before dosing.

This solution is added much less frequently than the other two parts. Each time you finish adding a gallon of both parts of Recipe #1, add 610 mL (2 ½ cups) of this stock solution. You can add it all at once or over time as you choose, depending on the aquarium's size and set up. Add it to a high flow area, preferably a sump. In a very small aquarium, or one without a sump, I suggest adding it slowly.

The first time it's added, I recommend adding just a small portion and making sure there isn't any problem (such as corals closing up due to stress) before adding the remainder. Make sure corals and other organisms don't get blasted with locally high concentrations of the main ingredients or impurities, or else they may become stressed. This solution contains about 47,000 ppm magnesium, 70,000 ppm sulfate and 86,000 ppm chloride.

OHH, Now I get it Thanks Greg
I knew it was not just a 1 time thing, I just forgot about the magnesium chloride.

[Jennifer]

So if people are just adding the mag-flake would that not make the magnesium chloride levels way over that of the magnesium sulfate levels?
Has there been any articles that show any harmful effects if the concentrations
between mag sulfate and mag chloride go out of whack. Or do we just not know yet.
I never was any good with chemistry. But I am almost there. I think I now know just enough to make me dangerous. LOL

[Greg Hiller]

>So if people are just adding the mag-flake would that not make the magnesium chloride levels way over that of the magnesium sulfate levels?<

Over time, yes. Remember though, it also depends upon how you are adding calcium. I use a calcium reactor to add calcium and alkalinity to my tank. Because critters in my tank also use some magnesium I need to add it. You can either spike your calcium reactor with dolomite (calcium and magnesium carbonate), or simply add magnesium to your tank by using a mixture of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate. I choose to do the latter. The supplement that I prepare myself uses both magnesium sulfate and magnesium chloride so that the ratio of the sulfate to chloride ions is the same as should be in the tank intially, the same as the ocean, 19,000 ppm Cl to 2,700 ppm SO4.

If though you are using the two-part calcium and alkalinity solutions things are a bit different. If you are using ESV's solution, then (supposedly, and it could quite be true) your sulfate to chloride ratios will not get off. You would probably add magnesium back once in a while, and would probably add it in the same way I do above, or just use a balanced magnesium supplement like ESV's magnesium supplement.

If though you were using the DIY two-part solutions then things get more complicated. If you are adding CaCl2 (calcium chloride) and NaHCO3 (baking soda), over time the Cl2 (chloride) ions build up and the ratio between chloride and sulfate becomes skewed. In Randy's early receipe he included a third, readily available component, Epsom salts (MgSO4, magnesium sulfate). This addition kept the sulfate to choride balance more closely alined, but eventually the sulfate would become elevated (if used as he prescribed). When an inexpensive source of magnesium chloride (MgCl2) became available, Randy suggested a modification to the formulas that would use both MgCl2, and MgSO4, and keep everything in balance longer.

>Has there been any articles that show any harmful effects if the concentrations
between mag sulfate and mag chloride go out of whack. Or do we just not know yet. <

I don't think we know. Part of the reason for this is that there is little to no incentive for scientists to study this, as natural critters (at least at the present time in geological history) would not encounter such inbalances.

[jrmx635]

I've added epsom salt at about 2lbs a day and my mg went from 900's to 1100's in two days.
I had no negative affects on any coral or anenomes so far.
I just add it slowly.
2lbs is alot a day but being about 280 gallons total water volume it isn't too bad.
I am going to finish off with the epsom then maintain with ESV.
epsom is $4 for six lbs at CVS.
It saved me quite a bit of money.

[ryancanulla]

This is all good to know! Just as an FYI folks, I've been adding epsom salt as the primary source of magnesium for about 2.5 years now. All of my coral have been fine, and actually do really well. That said, those days are now over!

[Muddskipper35]

Ive used epsom salts for yrs in italy, alaska, and here in this state on various reef tanks and have never had any negative effects. I do due 10% water changes weekly when the tanks were set up and will continue to do so once the new tank is set. but then again I will also be using NSW as well as I have also done so in the past.. :D

[NeverlosT]

I was told to put dolomite in my calcium reactor (20% dolomite, 80% ARM) and that would keep it up.... dont know if that helps or what peoples opinion on that practice is.

[jimmyj7090]

There is some question/concern about just using epsom salts over time.

The DIY recipe to avoid this concern requires Mag flake/pellets.

This is the season when you CAN find Mag flake/pellets. You can get epsom salts anytime at CVS.


Why NOT track down some mag flake/pellets?
:) Yes, it's driveway melt, but it's also the right stuff ::

[dcforester1]

Surprise surprise, I am confused again. I have been using Randys rec for about 4mos, and no problems that I am aware of. I was wondering if anyone using it could PM me, and I could talk to them on the phone? Someone offered awhile ago, but I cannot find the PM.

I get screwed up when it says to add the Mag, when you used both gallons of cal, and alk. Do you still add it even if your level is fine? Or will it be low from the continued use of the Cal, and Alk?

I also just used straight Epsom salt to raise my Mag. I dont know if that right.

If someone could be kind enough please PM me, and set me straight.

Thanks Derek

[dcforester1]

Sorry to highjack the thread. I got it. Thanks

[steevareno]

Can you miix up mag flake in Ro water and add it to the tank or does it have to be in a reactor? I used to know this but forget...

[jimmyj7090]

Yup, IIRC you mix 7 1/4 cups of mag flake with 3/4 cup of epsom salts, then dissolve in 1 gal of RODI water. Once dissolved (takes some effort) you add this to the tank directly. Figure out how much using the reef chemistry calculator.

Randy's article. Scroll down about half way for the recipe and instructions;
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

Chemistry calculator;
http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html