New Group buy policy from BRS BOD [Archive] - Boston Reefers Society Online Community

Greg Hiller

02-08-2005, 10:39 AM

This is the NEW, and CURRENT policy regarding group buys, if you have questions or comments please post below and I/we will attempt to answer:

ONLY the highest-level sponsors (currently we have 6 such sponsors), called BRS Forum Sponsors, are allowed to hold 'official' BRS group buys. These group buys will be posted in the Sponsors OWN forum, and all discussions will be held in that forum. There are no limits on such group buys, the sponsor may put whatever restrictions they like on them (minimum $ number, have to pick up at store, deadline date of X, etc.), and they may be run at any time and as frequently as the sponsor would like.

We will encourage everyone to show each other respect and to maintain professional conduct at all times. Sponsors are asked to postpone or decide to use another item when another sponsor has already advertised a group buy for the same product(s) so as to not develop any controversy or create ill will.

The group buy section of the forum will be renamed the pooled order forum. The forum's intended use will continue to be for organizing interest in group buys, and for pooled order coordination with non-sponsors.

Whenever possible we will continue to ask BRS members to make our highest level sponsors aware of interest from the club members in certain items (email or call the sponsors if you don't think they have seen the posts). When and if a BRS web sponsor picks up the group buy there will be a post in the thread linking to the information about the terms of the sponsor's group buy. That information will be posted in the sponsor?s OWN forum, and not in the main thread. Threads that end in group buys being picked up by a BRS web forum sponsor will not be closed since some BRS members may not be interested in participating in the group buy due to location, or terms of the buy. Any BRS members interested in participating in the group buy with the sponsor should continue all further discussion on the sponsor's sub-forum.

If a group buy (now an unofficial group buy since not from a BRS Web Sponsor) is picked up by a commercial entity that is NOT a BRS Forum Sponsor, and that offer becomes more that just a pooled order (meaning that the pricing has been altered or discounted from the normal price specifically for the club, possibly requiring some minimum participation) we ask that all further discussion of the buy be taken to email or private messages. Mention of the buy in the thread and a statement of the BRS member who is the organizer to 'email or PM me' WILL be allowed, but there will be no disclosure of the details of the buy, or the name of the commercial entity. The BRS Web Sponsors have paid for the right to have greater access to the BRS membership though our web site. Allowing commercial entities that have no relationship with the BRS to profit by the use of our forum is not in the long-term interests of the BRS.

The policy above was decided upon through many, many hours of BOD/officers discussions. It is not perfect, and will not please everyone, but it is a policy that the BOD/officers have devised that is workable without extreme efforts from forum moderators, respects our BRS forum sponsors, and still allows for our BRS members to save a buck in this expensive hobby. The policy will be enforced. Any threads regarding group buys or pooled orders will need to conform to the policy or they will be edited by the moderators, the poster will be warned, and if necessary posting privileges will be revoked.

Antimony1019

02-08-2005, 01:42 PM

This sounds like a good policy. The time and attention that the BOD have paid to this topic is appreciated.

The one question that I have off the top of my head is this... Let's say a sponsor decides to organize a group buy on his own and advertises it in his own forum and there is no exsistence of the group buy in the new pooled order thread and there is no other similar product advertised in the pooled group order thread, is he responsible for looking at each of the 5 other sponsors forums to ensure they are not running a similar group buy? Or should sponsors also list their own group buys in the pooled order thread as well, so that hopefully it will limit group buys of similar nature occuring at the same time?

Maybe there could be a sticky thread within the pooled order thread where sponsors could list any group buys they have going on, a link to the details and the logistics of it should be handled in that sponsors forum.

I just thought it might be a bit easier this way if a sponsor decides to do a group buy on something that was not discussed in the pooled order thread, and might help eliminate some of the grey area.

Greg Hiller

02-08-2005, 04:30 PM

Steph,

>The one question that I have off the top of my head is this... Let's say a sponsor decides to organize a group buy on his own and advertises it in his own forum and there is no exsistence of the group buy in the new pooled order thread and there is no other similar product advertised in the pooled group order thread, is he responsible for looking at each of the 5 other sponsors forums to ensure they are not running a similar group buy?<

No. Although we encourage the sponsors not to run similar group buys, we do not expect the sponsors to take the time and look under every rock before they plan to run a special of some type or another for the club membership.

>Or should sponsors also list their own group buys in the pooled order thread as well, so that hopefully it will limit group buys of similar nature occuring at the same time? <

Not sure about this, there would have to be a time element to it.

>Maybe there could be a sticky thread within the pooled order thread where sponsors could list any group buys they have going on, a link to the details and the logistics of it should be handled in that sponsors forum.<

Again, that could work, but there would have to be a time element to it, and I would prefer the details of the buy to be only listed in the sponsors own forum.

clamm

02-08-2005, 07:10 PM

looks good and no one is really hurt by this...surprised this wasn't already the policy. :) ANYWAY BOD keep up the good work.

Scuba_Dave

02-08-2005, 08:20 PM

I can't help but notice we as members are now put back into the same boat we were in before on Reef Central.
Instead of being limited to Reef Central sponsors, we are now limited to BRS sponsors. A better deal to be sure, but still a limit.
So we are back to what we had to do on Reef Central....run around with E-mails, PM's & the like.

Any member have ANOTHER web site that we can possibly host pooled orders that do not pass judgement?

clamm

02-08-2005, 08:41 PM

"The group buy section of the forum will be renamed the pooled order forum. The forum's intended use will continue to be for organizing interest in group buys, and for pooled order coordination with non-sponsors. "

people dont have to use sponsors... though encouraged, the pooled order will the the place individuals can get interest and make offers of pooled orders...

Unless im reading this wrong.

Scuba_Dave

02-08-2005, 08:47 PM

"If a group buy (now an unofficial group buy since not from a BRS Web Sponsor) is picked up by a commercial entity that is NOT a BRS Forum Sponsor, and that offer becomes more that just a pooled order (meaning that the pricing has been altered or discounted from the normal price specifically for the club, possibly requiring some minimum participation) we ask that all further discussion of the buy be taken to email or private messages. Mention of the buy in the thread and a statement of the BRS member who is the organizer to 'email or PM me' WILL be allowed, but there will be no disclosure of the details of the buy, or the name of the commercial entity. The BRS Web Sponsors have paid for the right to have greater access to the BRS membership though our web site. Allowing commercial entities that have no relationship with the BRS to profit by the use of our forum is not in the long-term interests of the BRS."

Greg Hiller

02-08-2005, 08:51 PM

Dave,

I understand your points but I think there has to be a compromise. If we allow complete wild west on our forum then we will quickly have no support at all from local shops. I think that the sponsors that we have now contribute a lot more than was previously the case. We have to make that sponsorship have some value. There were a lot of other benefits to moving to our own forum, and those remain, IMO.

dedfish

02-08-2005, 08:54 PM

It seems that a member run group buy not from a sponsor is not allowed to be discussed in detail on the forum? Is that correct? If it is that is a real bummer since this club is supposed to be for the members not the sponsors. My 2 cents!

:(

Greg Hiller

02-08-2005, 08:57 PM

Clamm,

You are reading it correctly. Pool away all you want. If the commercial entity you are dealing with decides that they want to create their own special group buy then we ask that it goes to email/PM since the previledge of a group buy is reserved for sponsors. If the commercial entity wants to become a sponsor (and they might as they see the value of this forum) then have them talk to us and we will sign them up.

Greg Hiller

02-08-2005, 09:05 PM

Dedfish,

>It seems that a member run group buy not from a sponsor is not allowed to be discussed in detail on the forum? Is that correct? If it is that is a real bummer since this club is supposed to be for the members not the sponsors.<

That is correct. The sponsors pay big $ to BE sponsors. That money goes to fund the club. It is a trade off. We could forget about having any sponsors, and individual members would save every penny possible by getting every group buy under the sun. The BOD however felt that there WAS value in having the local (or non-local) commercial entities contribute to and participate in the things the club was doing. I can see it either way, but that is what we decided. If the only thing people want from the club is to save a buck on DE XM bulbs, then you are right, we are not doing the best for you. Feel free to vote the bums out next time around (only ~11 months left).

RobboT

02-08-2005, 09:23 PM

I've been quietly lurking mostly out of respect for those who would rather I don't come around anymore but this is just too interesting to pass up. I just want to say that the reason I dropped out of running was because I had come to realize that the members didnt want a club run like a business and that Scavo and the majority of the others running seemed to be more in tune with that ideal. In the months leading up to the election it became pretty clear to me that the majority of members wanted a website where they could speak freely about whatever topic they chose and that if this meant no official sponsors then so be it. There was in fact a very lengthy discussion about this very topic being discussed here. Based on all the discussion up to the election I was convinced that I had been wrong all along to try and turn the BRS into something it didnt want to be. It's very interesting how things have turned out.

1) Do not have sponsors. It's not worth the time and energy. Encourage the participation of LFS, but don't make it into a formal contractual relationship. - former BRS Treasurer JimN

Greg Hiller

02-08-2005, 09:37 PM

Ah, but IMO we are not running it as a business. We are attempting to keep local stores involved. Again, I say what we are doing is a compromise, some would have it all one way, others all another. I think we are doing the right thing with the way we have set it up, but hey, as I say, it's my opinion (and the opinion of the entire BOD and officers). I believe that I am acting with the best interests of the club, and I think that most in the club would agree. If not, well, that's the beauty of democracy.

karl wagner

02-08-2005, 09:37 PM

Yes, What Greg said is absolutely correct.

In order for us to attract good sponsors and retain them, there needs to be a value to the concept of being a sponsor. We feel that we want the good LFS and online vendors to sponsor our group. We're actively pursuing additional reputable LFS and online outlets. We have to. We want them stocking things that will live and we hope to improve the survival rates of those specimens that we buy. There needs to be that complete loop.

Now, if you or anyone else wants to go through said "flybynightreef.com?" that engages in questionable activities, then go for it, it's your quarter. But we don't want to promote that type of thing, and we don't think it's in the best interest of the hobby. If said site is capable of building and maintaining a good relationship with the local customer base, then we'll try to get them as sponsors. Good vendors should want to be sponsors of the BRS. But again, in order to do so, there needs to be that intrinsic value behind the concept, something worth defending.

That's all we're trying to do here, add value. To the club, to the hobby, to the members. This order is not significant, there are clearly three legs to the table. If one were removed, the table or the "club" would fail.

We'll try it this way, and if it doesn't work, the 2006 board can change it and see if the sponsors and members like it better.

clamm

02-08-2005, 09:44 PM

and good sponsors I think we have! Since I joined in early summer, the number of sponsors and their participation has dramatically changed for the better IMO.

I beleive Scott M. said at the election meeting that he would like to see us get back to exploring the science of the hobby *forgive me if I have misquoted* and I couldn't agree more, but for this to happen its going to take cooperation between LFS, members, and online sponsors. Look at the time, money, and effort that Inland Reef put into the salt study... That kind of research is awesome not just for us but the entire hobby. I think this is a necessary step in the right direction even tough there may be some compromise, as Greg said its a democracy, remember that we elected a BOD and they are deciding on the best possible outcomes so we don't have to have arguments and everything...I don't want to say they do the dirty work, but in fact their positions help people in my position enjoy this group even more. I have faith that they have the best interest of this club at heart, and if we are found wrong...elections will come around again. :)

Again hats off to BOD.

karl wagner

02-08-2005, 09:44 PM

The fundamentals of running a "not for profit" are soundly based on those of running a "for-profit" business, with the subsequent focus on using any donations/revenues toward charitable causes and in our case, educational events.

karl wagner

02-08-2005, 09:57 PM

I'd like to address some of Steph's good points.

Unfortunately, there is seasonality to the business. Chances are that the incentives to sell an item will be the same for all outlets. Therefore, it is likely that things are seen "on sale" at different outlets at the same time.

Next, an item will have some timeliness issues associated, and these "hot" items, *sea hares* comes to mind, are good candidates for group buys. I think it's reasonable that there will be this group buy/pooled order madness where everyone wants to do a group buy/pooled order on the same item. It's going to happen.

However, an indiscretionary effect does happen when someone else advertises an item that's hot, it might be profitable for another outlet to not discount that item,
and people will still demand it, simply because they're now aware of its benefit. The classic example, when Right Guard runs an ad campaign, a competing product say Speed Stick usually sees an increase in sales with no advertising whatsoever.

So, there exists the likelihood that all sponsors will be offering a group buy on a certain item, and then one may want to edit/delete their post, and offer something else/something different. If you already know that there's a triage on a product, then disengage from the discount. That's why we gave them the power to moderate their own forums. Again, something worth having/something worth defending/building value.

RobboT

02-08-2005, 09:59 PM

Well if this is in fact what the members want then I must assume that back then it wasn't the message I was conveying that mattered just the messenger . . . I'm back off to lurking in the shadows. Good luck guys & gals, and I mean that sincerely.

Shallowwaters

02-08-2005, 10:20 PM

Reading this thread, it seems to me that concerns of limited vendor selection and restricted free speech are overblown. Our sponsors, especially current LFS's, are very interested to proactively serve Club members with attractive group buys. Our sponsors will be as competitive as any other reputable vendor for widely distributed products. And it's proven that the more we support for our sponsors, the greater the returns will be to the Club and its members. This fact means the BOD, IMO, has made a good compromise and acted in the best interests of the membership. This policy change sacrifices little, gives more to our sponsors, and the total membership will benefit.

PenMan

02-08-2005, 10:29 PM

There are currently six top tier sponsors. The BOD is working with several others that have shown serious interest. We are also working on plan to allow sponsors to offer a product on a monthly email by the club to members that sign up for it.

This plan does offer the sponsors an incentive to offer the group buys and continue their sponsorship. Not having sponsors was discussed, but the BOD feels that we do want to support our LFS's, and given a level playing field that they do want to support the BRS.

We think that you will see more and better group buys. This without the work of members collecting money and arranging pickups.

clamm

02-08-2005, 10:36 PM

The only thing I would like to make sure is that sponcers don't get angry at other sponcers, face it they are basically fighting for the same customers on here but there continued support is needed. I know the BOD is already considering this, just dont want to lose sponcers or have small wars between sponcers, I hope that can be done, im sure it can.

But from the consumer point of view, you snooze you lose, assuming each person had the opportunity to do a group buy...

What might be neat is arrange each sponcer to run a group buy or every month or 2 mths and each sponcer would have a different product...

Just some thoughts..

joefitz

02-09-2005, 12:10 AM

This is a very thorny issue and, as has been stated many times, the BOD has debated these issues for quite some time.

Putting restrictions on sponsors is not really something we wanted to get involved in because it means a lot of management on our part, which we honestly don't have time to deal with... In my opinion, invariably, sponsors would still run into conflicts with one another.

Similarly, we aren't interested in restricting our members from taking any given course of action -- specifically, trying to tell them the only way they can choose to organize purchases would be through our sponsors. We can't force our members to purchase from sponsors nor are we interested in attempting to do such a thing.

I think the idea behind the policy is to tell our sponsors that we will do whatever we can to help them reach out and service our members as long as it does not conflict with our members interests. Similarly, members are asked to consider our sponsors whenever they are making purchases.

Some clarification of the policy may be in order. I'm not the author of the policy so maybe Greg or someone else can tell me how close I am in these next few statements.

A pooled order is an order in which a member has typically selected a specific vendor (sponsor or not) and is seeking interest from other people ordering from that same vendor. These are generally done to save shipping cost or reach a particular price point for a discount or similar. I believe, although I could be completely misinterpreting it, according to the policy, these threads can go on without any change. Specific mention of the vendor, who is ordering what and how much they owe can be mentioned in the thread.

If the vendor is contacted about discounts not standardly available, this would then become an unofficial group buy. Such threads are welcome; however, the specific details of the group buy must be handled outside of the public forum (email, PM).

While I don't love this last part, I can live with it.

A few more comments I'd like to make. First, and I don't mean this as a slight directed at our sponsors who I think are all very reputable establishments, but I don't believe we put our sponsors through any rigorous "application" or "quality assurance" process. Clearly I think we would hope only to seek sponsors that are reputable, but at the same time, I'd want to make sure we are clearly stating what sponsorship means to them and why we are asking our members to support our sponsors -- namely, that they choose to support us.

I'd agree with Shallowwaters...the free-speech argument seems a bit tired. This isn't about free speech. Just like any "society", competing interests have to be managed -- the needs of the individuals and the needs of the group as a whole among others. The policy was created to balance those needs and I think it is the best attempt we've had to date by far.

I would hope and expect it to continue to improve over the years as we determine how to fine tune it. Let's give this one some time and see how it goes.

stang8s

02-09-2005, 12:24 AM

.

Now, if you or anyone else wants to go through said "flybynightreef.com?" that engages in questionable activities, then go for it, it's your quarter. But we don't want to promote that type of thing, and we don't think it's in the best interest of the hobby.

I think this is all fine in good in theory and a noble idea, but you know as well as I, that there is no screening process for sponsors and that if "flybynightreef.com" or "sea-hares-R-Us.com" coughed up the sponsorship money and mailed in a banner, we would be looking/clicking at it as we read this....

As long as there are a good amount of sponsors, which there are (6 and growing?) then I dont see this entire thing limiting the club in any way. If there was 1 sponsor or even 2 then obviously it would. Essentially the policy is forcing the sponsors to compete not with every other business in the world but just amongst themselves. With 6 sponsors which are very competitvely priced to begin with, I think an individual BRS member would be hard pressed to find a better group buy deal anyway..

Obviously no sponsor is going to step-up here and offer a group buy that is worse pricing then what can be found on the web anyway. Very few would sign up and if there was a min number to participate, they wouldnt make it. Also it would look silly to people and to other sponsors who always have the right to offer up a better deal on the same thing if they choose too.

I can't recall too many non-sponsor group buys where a significant savings was offered anyway. You can still do them if you organize one but just have to post " pm me for details".. Like Joe says, the pooled orders to save the shipping costs or to meet shipping minimums is still fair-play. I see more of that then anything else.
jeff

ps. - Hi Rob!

objectfire

02-09-2005, 12:48 AM

I read this thread with interest. The issue of free and open discussion negatively affecting the sponsors is definitely a thorny issue to approach. Without delving too deeply into motive and purpose of the forums, is their any value in the following idea or further ideas stemming from it?

Kent

---

Through discussion on the pooled order forum, or through a non-sponsor discussion with a BRS member, an unofficial group buy proposal emerges. A notice is posted per the current policy. This part is not new.

The new idea would be to poll the sponsors to see if they have any objection to having the details and discussion occur openly in the pooled order forum -- no reason required. If all sponsors give a thumbs up, then the unofficial group buy becomes a sanctioned buy with open discussion allowed.

Sponsors may wish to allow such endeavors to evaluate interest and track experiences with a particular item or livestock before expanding their own offerings to include such items, after which they would most likely veto future groups buys of such items from non-sponsors.

Of course, any sponsor may read the above proposal and decide they would always veto, so the idea would be useless unless some agreement was reached on allowing sanctioned buys, etc., which opens up the whole can of worms of regulating limits on the freqency of sponsor buys or the proposed group buys, so maybe this idea is not good for anything but food for thought.

---

Antimony1019

02-09-2005, 09:59 AM

The new idea would be to poll the sponsors to see if they have any objection to having the details and discussion occur openly in the pooled order forum -- no reason required. If all sponsors give a thumbs up, then the unofficial group buy becomes a sanctioned buy with open discussion allowed.

---

Would there be someone willing to notify all sponsors if such a thread exsisted so they could go and give the thumbs up on it? I doubt it, and for good reason... To expect sponsors to have to police every thread, or every post would be way too much. I know most sponsors probabaly do not have time to be doing this. I know Mike is so busy he really doesn't even have time to post his "Just in!!" list in his own forum, nevermind policing the pooled order forum so he could sanction someone to list the details of a groupbuy that he has no interest in from any aspect.

The sticky thread that I suggested earlier in the post where sponsors could list whatever group buy they currently have ongoing was suggested to try to stop sponsors from fighting and running to the BOD and complaining, hopefully making the sponsor's lives and the BOD's lives a bit less hectic...

I would hope that most of the sponsors could use their best judgement in timing when they would do a group buy on a similar product if there is already one ongoing. If this becomes a concern maybe a good rule of thumb would be that a group buy on a similar product could take place 1 week after the product is in stock with the other sponsor, unless the item is prepaid, then the sponsor is free to start their own group buy whenever they want. Once again though, this would only be on the same/similar products. This may make it too much of a pain in the butt with sponsors, but I guess we'll have to see how things pan out...

Just my thoughts.

Greg Hiller

02-09-2005, 10:03 AM

Objectfire,

>The new idea would be to poll the sponsors to see if they have any objection to having the details and discussion occur openly in the pooled order forum -- no reason required. If all sponsors give a thumbs up, then the unofficial group buy becomes a sanctioned buy with open discussion allowed.<

Seems like a great idea to me. There will not very likely be many such group buys, but my MgCl2 might have qualified for this. As you will recall, I asked several sponsors and no one wanted to touch it (they were almost afraid of it!). In many cases some of the stuff the club may want would be too much effort on the part of a sponsor and they would have no interest.

Joe F.,

Very well put.

>A pooled order is an order in which a member has typically selected a specific vendor (sponsor or not) and is seeking interest from other people ordering from that same vendor. These are generally done to save shipping cost or reach a particular price point for a discount or similar. I believe, although I could be completely misinterpreting it, according to the policy, these threads can go on without any change. Specific mention of the vendor, who is ordering what and how much they owe can be mentioned in the thread.<

Correct.

>If the vendor is contacted about discounts not standardly available, this would then become an unofficial group buy. Such threads are welcome; however, the specific details of the group buy must be handled outside of the public forum (email, PM).<

Correct again.

>A few more comments I'd like to make. First, and I don't mean this as a slight directed at our sponsors who I think are all very reputable establishments, but I don't believe we put our sponsors through any rigorous "application" or "quality assurance" process.<

That is correct. We do not seek out sponsors that we think are questionable, but if one comes to us at this point we have no set policy to decline their offer (though Karl has joked about loosing their check!). We considered a long time ago picking and choosing among sponsors, and I agree that the idea has merit, but how to choose becomes REALLY tricky. Too many questions come up about whether the BOD is then favoring certain sponsors who happen to be (or have been) club members (this counts for about half or more of our current top tier sponsors depending upon how you look at it). We have within BOD meetings discussed what we would do if some really questionable entity wanted to become a sponsor, and left open the possibility that in extreme cases we might decline their offer. Part of the reasoning for not picking and choosing sponsors also comes from the 'local' perspective. Suppose you live next door to some monster pet store chain and you want to buy frozen brine shrimp at a 10% discount. Why should we (the BOD) say, no you cannot have your 10% discount because we won't let them be a sponsor?

I started this thread in this section of the forum because I knew all the group buy groupies would see it. In the near future we may move it to the BRS business section, because it really is becoming more of a discussion of BRS business.

starrfish

02-09-2005, 07:56 PM

dedfish

02-10-2005, 12:21 AM

Just for the record...I never called any of you bums. :D

Yaktop

02-10-2005, 08:59 AM

Wow - just read through this whole thread and it's....overwhelming! The officers (of which I am one) and the BOD had MANY discussions and emails on this topic, so I'm not surprised that it generated a lot of questions/concerns from everyone else. I want everyone to understand that this is a difficult policy to set, and there was some compromise among the officers/BOD because you can NEVER please everyone with a policy like this. We came out with a policy that we believe will benefit both the members and the sponsors. One of our primary philosophies is to support the hobby and our local LFS. We believe that the current policy allows the members to continue to participate in "pooled orders" to reduce shipping costs, but it also allows the sponsors to offer "group buys" to show support for the club, get foot traffic in the store, etc. Another consideration was administration - we didn't want anyone spending 10, 20, 40 hours per week monitoring/policing/administering the policy. This is a hobby for the officers/BOD just like everyone else. We want to have fun with it too! Is it perfect? NO. But we believe it's a good compromise for the entire club.

very well said. I agree 100%. And there will always be critics regardless what we or anyone does. The current board was elected to be the servants of the general membership. Those who disagree with the policies enacted are more than welcome to step up and run for a position (in just a few short months away) and pursue their own agenda(s) and perception of the betterment of the club. I dont say this is a negatitive manner, I challenge those that interested to get involved in a more positive manner.

Greg Hiller

04-28-2005, 04:56 PM

bump, Moe make sticky when you have a chance.

RichConley

08-14-2005, 02:12 PM

My one issue with this at this point, is not allowing people to talk about non-sponsor group buy specifics on the forums takes away a sponsor's opportunity to compete. They dont know what theyre competing with.

IE if someoen puts together a pooled order at Marine Depot for instance, theyre doing it because of a good price on some piece of equipment. The sponsors dont get the opportunity to say "I can meet that price, or come close"

I totally agree with supporting the sponsors, and I dont believe non-sponsor VENDORS shoudl be able to advertise/discuss deals/their products/etc, but I dont think we should restrict what the members can discuss.

Censorship is never good.

Moe_K

08-14-2005, 02:34 PM

I totally agree with supporting the sponsors, and I dont believe non-sponsor VENDORS shoudl be able to advertise/discuss deals/their products/etc, but I dont think we should restrict what the members can discuss.

Censorship is never good.
Non-sponsors should not be able to discuss their deals here.
They can add input in other discussion forums - i.e. if they have tips for a newbie that's looking for help on keeping a troublesome coral or fish.
If you see a non-sponsor arranging a group buy or advertising, please report the post to a moderator.
There's a button on the left for reporting posts - it looks like a white triangle with a black exclamation mark.

Piscevore

08-14-2005, 06:00 PM

I haven't read everything. I skimmed. I think an addend is in order however.

If I am buying widget X, direct from the manufacturer, I think I should be allowed to run a pooled order in the pooled order section. Lets say my widget is fans. Great clip on fans, straight from the manufacturer, below wholesale, for cooling sumps, if I buy a million of them. That manuf. is in no way going to put up a banner on our website. We represent a fraction of a percentage of said widget market. Is this allowed or not? From what I read, this would be required to go PM? That might chafe me a tad. I know we chatted this up in the past during BOD meetings, I'm just not sure if I understand.

As I recall, Greg got himself in a quandry with his PE order a while back, because it was a product that a LFS could stock and sell.... but for widgets, random things that people need (Magnesium), Razor blades, whatever... If I can find it for a sweet deal online from a manufacturer, can I run a Pooled order?

Moe_K

08-14-2005, 10:17 PM

That kind of group buy would have to go via PM or email. A notice could be posted, with info on what's being ordered, from where, and such; but coordination and discussion should be done via PM or email.
A thourough reading of the rules in the first post should be completed to get the details and justifications to further this discussion (not a slam Ryan, just a gentle nudge in the ribs ;) )

Piscevore

08-14-2005, 10:23 PM

Nudging perfectly acceptable :) I was pretty sure I was reading it right. It really does chafe me!

NateHanson

08-15-2005, 12:30 AM

IE if someoen puts together a pooled order at Marine Depot for instance, theyre doing it because of a good price on some piece of equipment. The sponsors dont get the opportunity to say "I can meet that price, or come close"

Actually Rich, that sort of a pooled order is perfectly legal and can be discussed freely on the boards. What's not allowed is special pricing or volume discount arrangements with a non-sponsor. If your just pooling an order from Marine depot to save on shipping, or to meet a quantity price-break that's listed on their website, that's totally fine. Post away.

Piscevore

08-15-2005, 12:41 AM

the irony here, is that the organizer of some of the sweetest bulk orders is the poster of the original thread :)

Greg Hiller

08-15-2005, 01:06 PM

>the irony here, is that the organizer of some of the sweetest bulk orders is the poster of the original thread <

Ryan,

True, but there are several issues here. Now that we have an army of sponsors, most of the things we need can be gotten through them, at a pretty darn good discount in most cases. The sponsors know that we are all cheap bas$@#%s, and I've been very impressed with the deals they have come up with, as far as I can see, better deals than the type we came up with before the sponsors existed. Also, I realize that part of the reason these sponsors run these deals is that they want foot traffic into their store. If they can offer something at near cost, as long as they get people into their store they will make plenty of money.

Also, the policy only talks about group buys in which there was some special discount. Most of the buys I ran there was a large minimum order, no special pricing, so as far as I can see these would still be allowed. For instance, the group buy on MgCl2 required a pallet's worth to be shipped (minimum order). The group buy I tried to set up for Mysis shrimp was cut off by the shipper themselves, due to the fact that the distributer found out (yes, he and just about everybody else in this area involved in the business watches this board like a hawk) and went ballistic. The funny thing about the Mysis shrimp buy was that it ended up being picked up by a BRS sponsor for the same price!!! BRS gets last laugh.

>If I can find it for a sweet deal online from a manufacturer, can I run a Pooled order?<

The way the policy is written (and I know this is difficult to describe exactly), if the price of the item is the 'standard' price, whether in bulk or whatever, then that is fine. If however you call the manufacturer and negociate a special deal, then that is not supposed to be made public except by PM's/email. One a special deal is made it will be funneling BRS business to a particular vendor, and be advertising them by default. They will also be quite likely to want to come onto the board and discuss the deal, something that we feel is not fair to sponsors.

Rich,

>My one issue with this at this point, is not allowing people to talk about non-sponsor group buy specifics on the forums takes away a sponsor's opportunity to compete. They dont know what theyre competing with.<

That is true, and I see your point, but there is nothing stopping the member organizing one of these buys to call up their favorite club sponsor and tell them about the deal that 'fans for cheap.com' promised them. Many (or most) of the sponsors would probably pick up the deal and the price would still be pretty darn close, if not cheaper since they made need more of the item for their shop anyhow.