Cycle Talk

[marco67]

I've noticed an increasing number of threads lately regarding "cycle" and a lot of confusion about the term.

Cycle, cure, cooking are all terms that are kinda used broadly and painted with a wide brush. So I thought it would be good to start a thread to help add some definition and clarity to that broad brushing.

I'll start (my thread I get too :p)
But please jump in.

Weather we're talking Dry rock or live rock there will be dead organics locked up in and on the rock.
The first part of your "cycle" is getting rid of this organic material.
A good indication of this is ammonia level, as the fresh die off begins to "rot" or "cycle" it produces ammonia. That quickly moves to Nitrite then finally Nitrate. At this point it's important that there is some beneficial bacteria and other beneficial organisms in there to start consuming this. With nice fresh live rock they are there in strong numbers, with half dead boat rock they may be weak at best and with dry rock you'll need to seed with LR/sand or a bottled product. What state the rock is in and the way you handle it right here will be the difference in time till fully cycled or cured.
Now we all know that Ammonia is toxic to tank inhabitants so it's bad right? Well not really;
The beneficial organisms that we are after and want to colonize the rock thrive on ammonia (you want something that like to eat fish pee). So as you start to notice Ammonia then Nitrite fade you know it's being consumed by these organisms and therefore increasing their strength and population.
So ..there comes a point somewhere in mid "cycle" when the rock may not be harmful to your tank but also may not be that beneficial, it's at this point when feeding those organisms becomes important (raw shrimp, or light fish stocking). That's why slow stocking is key to let the beneficial build to where it can handle your bio load.
There are also many products that claim to speed your "cycle". I've tried many and found most to be snake oil, there is one I use in every tank I install and I've seem it pull off some things that would make you scratch your head. Maybe a subject for another thread.

Anyhow I hope that's all something to think about and comment on, if not we'll just let the thread fade away...............:cool:

[cleeduz]

Marc,

Thank you for your insight, your info really helps me to understand the procedure, and what is going on in there. :)

[afboundguy]

How come this isn't in the reef talk? Wanted to hog it all for yourself? :p

Good stuff hopefully everybody sees it...

Your rocks still rock!!! (no pun intended)

[lisa foster]

Is it unsafe to add more live rock to an established tank?

[afboundguy]

Is it unsafe to add more live rock to an established tank?

You can do it but depending on how "live" the new rock is and how much rock you already have in the tank you should get at least a little re-cycle...

IMO it's always better to cycle new live rock and dead rock in a different tank with flow, heat and a skimmer and seed it with some from the main tank...

[marco67]

How come this isn't in the reef talk? Wanted to hog it all for yourself? :p

Good stuff hopefully everybody sees it...

Your rocks still rock!!! (no pun intended)

Nah,
and maybe you're right it should be moved.
I just thought I'd post it here in case it turned or could be considered commercial.
I'll flag it for review.

[mstrassbur]

hi Marc
do you think that boiling with hot water will clean some stuff out of dead or dry rock to make it a better start to have a cleaner cycle i really don't think of using bleach to sanitize before going to into the tank to start the cycle
what is your position you deal with rock that is why i put this here .i haven't bought any rock yet i don't want to start my new set-up with live rock that could carry bad stuff on it,i have experience on bad stuff that i introduced to my thank because i didn't know better so the new system will be pest free i hope.

[Joedes3]

I purchase the dry rock (and product to cycle my new tank) from Marc and my tank cycled in less than a week. GREAT STUFF!

[Shenlung]

there is one I use in every tank I install and I've seem it pull off some things that would make you scratch your head.

Don't hold out on me man! ::

[marco67]

hi Marc
do you think that boiling with hot water will clean some stuff out of dead or dry rock to make it a better start to have a cleaner cycle i really don't think of using bleach to sanitize before going to into the tank to start the cycle
what is your position you deal with rock that is why i put this here .i haven't bought any rock yet i don't want to start my new set-up with live rock that could carry bad stuff on it,i have experience on bad stuff that i introduced to my thank because i didn't know better so the new system will be pest free i hope.

I understand where you're coming from on this cycling "stinks" very literally sometimes. With the Fiji rock I've never needed more than a week or so to get rid of that initial wave of organics but I can see it being an issue. Thats why we have started "Pre Cycling" the new deco rock and soon will be the Fiji Too. To "preCycle" we are flushing the rock in a 10,000 GPH NSW flow through system, it's awesome how fast organics disappear in a flow through vs a closed system. Still shipping dry BTW.

I purchase the dry rock (and product to cycle my new tank) from Marc and my tank cycled in less than a week. GREAT STUFF! Thanks Joe,
Glad it's going well, almost a year now?

Don't hold out on me man! ::
Turbo Start 900 from fritz industries.
(don't judge it by the name, no snake oil here) :)

[s_kelley]

Hey Marc,
I got some nice pieces from you at the meeting in Bridgewater. They have have simmering in a tank downstairs since then I also put in a few pieces of rubble from my sump to seed it. I do weekly water changes but havent really been testing the water that religeously. I tested today and Amonia, nitrites, and nitrates are at zero. You think its safe to put into my display or should i still wait awhile? I dont want to risk loosing anything.
Thanks in advance

[bpfan64]

I was going to be getting dead rock and live rock tomarrow from a guy (OceanGuy) and was wondering, do I need a piece of live rock from my tank to get it started, do I do water changes with the water I take out from my tank, do I start with new water or water taken from my established tank, since I don't have another skimmer, do I need one??? any help appreciated

[marco67]

it's about impossible to answer all this for you,
Except that "it all depends"
on what you are buying,
on what your goals are for it,
on what's in your tank now ......

in general though if it's quality LR and it seems fresh, just tank it. Unless you decide to QT or treat it first.

[RIreefer]

Hi Marco Rocks,

Just a quick question....I'd like to buy a few more pieces of rock from you to add to my tank. Its a 90 gallon that's about 4 mos. new. Already have about 100 lbs of live rock....understand from above posts you are pre-flushing(?) your rock to help cycle it faster? Would i need to keep this separate for awhile and seed it with a piece from my DT or can I add this right away. Sorry if the question has been asked previously.

[marco67]

while it's safe to add, I still wouldn't until it's had some time to become live and you've had time to test it.

[stingythingy45]

"Turbo Start 900 from fritz industries.
(don't judge it by the name, no snake oil here)"

You know,I read somewhere that somebody(i know very general) that's very knowledgeable in this hobby mentioned this product.I looked all over for the source,but it went something like this.
"I'm not a big fan of products that speed the cycle along.I'd say 80% of them do not work.
I would say 100% if it weren't for a product called Fritz Turbo start 900".

[marco67]

"Turbo Start 900 from fritz industries.
(don't judge it by the name, no snake oil here)"

You know,I read somewhere that somebody(i know very general) that's very knowledgeable in this hobby mentioned this product.I looked all over for the source,but it went something like this.
"I'm not a big fan of products that speed the cycle along.I'd say 80% of them do not work.
I would say 100% if it weren't for a product called Fritz Turbo start 900".

Cool,
I'd love to know who you are talking about (PM ?).
I've been recommending this product for at least 5-6 years that I can remember maybe longer. I've had some pretty in depth conversations with the lead "biologist" (not sure his actual title) as well as some real world experience and I'm 110% on it. The only thing I don't like about it is having to add some caveat like in my above quote every time I recommend it.