Bill that would end or limit our hobby

[marco67]

re;HR669 PIJAC a Bill that would end or limit our hobby

I've gotten a few emails regarding this in the last couple of days.

Have a look
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-669

It may be worthy of a few emails or phone calls.
Maybe even an official response from the club to our state reps?


(PS I hope it's not some April fools BS but being that the dates are right I thought I'd mention it)

[NateHanson]

Do you see anything in there that could apply to reef tanks?

"The purpose of this Act is to establish a risk assessment process to prevent the introduction into, and establishment in, the United States of nonnative wildlife species that will cause or are likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to other animal species’ health or human health."

I actually think this stuff is important to consider - keeping invasives out of our waterways and land environments. Just look at the havoc some non-native plants and animals have caused in other parts of the country and world.

If there are species in our reef tanks that could survive around here, I think they should be blocked from importation. But I'm not sure I know of any.

[Dragon2115]

If there are species in our reef tanks that could survive around here, I think they should be blocked from importation. But I'm not sure I know of any.

I took this photo over three years ago inside a wreck off of Nassau, Bahamas. Adult specimens are showing up and survivng all along the Florida coast up as far as North Carolina and they're not sure how far into the Caribbean they made it so far. Where they have no natural enemies in either the Atlantic or Caribbean there's nothing to stop them. The theory is that the species got loose after some specimens either got too big for their aquariums and their owners dumped them in the ocean or they got washed out to sea during one of the hurricanes when it destroyed the house the aquarium was in. In either case they're loose and they're a huge problem.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k310/Dragon2115/Diving/Nassau%2002_2006/Lionfish-Sm.jpg

Unfortunately Nate this isn't a state bill. Where it's federal they aren't just looking at what might survive up here in New England or off any particular states' coast. What we have to worry about is politicians' penchant for going off half cocked without sufficient information and over reacting in their never ending quest to be seen as "doing something". And it wouldn't be the first time Congress passed a bill into law that had unintended consequences.

[Aquadiva]

Do you see anything in there that could apply to reef tanks?

"The purpose of this Act is to establish a risk assessment process to prevent the introduction into, and establishment in, the United States of nonnative wildlife species that will cause or are likely to cause economic or environmental harm or harm to other animal species’ health or human health."

I actually think this stuff is important to consider - keeping invasives out of our waterways and land environments. Just look at the havoc some non-native plants and animals have caused in other parts of the country and world.

If there are species in our reef tanks that could survive around here, I think they should be blocked from importation. But I'm not sure I know of any.

I would think most of the stuff could survive in Florida. Since, most is "not native" to Florida waters, I would have to side with Marc on this one. If the panel decides it could populate or "eat" native wildlife, it'll be banned. Not much is going to survive up here. Florida is another matter. Last time I looked Florida was part of the US. So... no Florida, no US.

[Aquadiva]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k310/Dragon2115/Diving/Nassau%2002_2006/Lionfish-Sm.jpg



Nice pic..

... and you type faster than me. ;)

[marco67]

I took this photo over three years ago inside a wreck off of Nassau, Bahamas. Adult specimens are showing up and survivng all along the Florida coast up as far as North Carolina and they're not sure how far into the Caribbean they made it so far. Where they have no natural enemies in either the Atlantic or Caribbean there's nothing to stop them. The theory is that the species got loose after some specimens either got too big for their aquariums and their owners dumped them in the ocean or they got washed out to sea during one of the hurricanes when it destroyed the house the aquarium was in. In either case they're loose and they're a huge problem.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k310/Dragon2115/Diving/Nassau%2002_2006/Lionfish-Sm.jpg

Unfortunately Nate this isn't a state bill. Where it's federal they aren't just looking at what might survive up here in New England or off any particular states' coast. What we have to worry about is politicians' penchant for going off half cocked without sufficient information and over reacting in their never ending quest to be seen as "doing something". And it wouldn't be the first time Congress passed a bill into law that had unintended consequences.

They are collecting lions regularly off long island, juvenile lions.

[Jim Tansey]

Really there no way to to stop the invasion of nonnative species, we live in a global economy you can pass all the laws you want it will never stop importing them on a bunch of bananas, the bilges of ship's, packing crates, or aquarium rocks.

Jim

[estubbaly]

Just for the record some guy bought a couple of snakeheads to make a special soup thought to have medicinal qualities and when his sister recovered before he made the soup he let the snakeheads go....now they're all the way up and down the east coast as for north as maryland.These were northern Snakeheads channa argus, a specifically ugly species rarely imported for the aquarium trade....OUR government got a hold on this info and reactionarily BANNED ALL snakehead species from import,including several very pretty dwarf species that make great aquarium specimens....bottom line...without rational intervention all of out tank inhabitants are at risk of being banned.

[Behrmon]

Well we didn't ban cats in time and look what happend there!
Seriously though something to keep an eye on.

[jojo1n2]

If anything we'll have to rely more on fraging and breeding fish for our tanks, but honestly, I wouldn't worry.

[coralcor]

Well we didn't ban cats in time and look what happend there!
Seriously though something to keep an eye on.

but i love my cats :(

[Aquadiva]

If anything we'll have to rely more on fraging and breeding fish for our tanks, but honestly, I wouldn't worry.

Really?? Did you look at where the sponsors of the bill are from?? FLA and CA. What do you think the two have in common???

[Blueflu1]

Really?? Did you look at where the sponsors of the bill are from?? FLA and CA. What do you think the two have in common???

They both are where old people move to when they retire. Thats it, elderly people are ruining the world. :D j/k

[Shenlung]

Really?? Did you look at where the sponsors of the bill are from?? FLA and CA. What do you think the two have in common???

Well... California is known for trying to pass laws like the "no black cars" bill and the "no smoking in public, to include your own property" bill.....and florida doesn't know how to vote :p

[marco67]

Really though,
I think the point of concern here is that our legislators don't exactly have a strong track record when it comes to reading and understanding bills they are voting on :rolleyes:
There seems to be this pattern lately of "knee jerk" feel good legislation and this is where we could help.
Some out cry from the aquarium and pet industry as a whole would help bring things to their attention so that hopefully when they read it before voting they'll better understand the negative impact.

[marco67]

I just found this link

http://www.govit.com/email_congress/

Email freely email often ...Don't forget to remind them They work for you!

[Aquadiva]

Well... California is known for trying to pass laws like the "no black cars" bill and the "no smoking in public, to include your own property" bill.....and florida doesn't know how to vote :p

It is hard to argue with this logic. :D

[Behrmon]

I just found this link

http://www.govit.com/email_congress/

Email freely email often ...Don't forget to remind them They work for you!

Great link!

[Mike McConville]

The reptile community's going crazy over this bill. They constantly come up, this is maybe the sixth in recent history, and they never get passed. One was just squashed last fall. This get tiring really fast as it's a constant battle to protect an unquestionable right.

[Bobbofin]

The reptile and bird community should be ashamed of themselves. People buy pythons, iguanas and birds not realized how big they will get, the cost to house and care for them and how long they will live. Some birds live to 80 years. A full grown python can and has eaten a two year old child instead of it's regular diet of baby pigs. Pythons and iguanas have been released in the southeast and they cause severe problems for fish & game departments as far north as South Carolina and across all southern states to Texas. I do not agree with this bill but I understand the reasoning behind it. As with things in religion and politics, you start off with a extreme view then negotiate. I my opinion large reptiles should require a license or permit.

[fishindude]

The reptile and bird community should be ashamed of themselves. People buy pythons, iguanas and birds not realized how big they will get, the cost to house and care for them and how long they will live. Some birds live to 80 years. A full grown python can and has eaten a two year old child instead of it's regular diet of baby pigs. Pythons and iguanas have been released in the southeast and they cause severe problems for fish & game departments as far north as South Carolina and across all southern states to Texas. I do not agree with this bill but I understand the reasoning behind it. As with things in religion and politics, you start off with a extreme view then negotiate. I my opinion large reptiles should require a license or permit.

I agree. It is so easy to go to the pet store and get a bird or frog or turtle etc. and then bring them home with little or no experience. It is bad for the poor animals and everyone else who does know what they're doing. I personally bought a pac man frog a couple years ago thinking it would be easy and fun. Luckily I did some research after buying it and realized that they are more difficult to take care of than people think. I still don't agree with the fact that they should be kept in such a small tank (10 gallons is the suggested size). Even though I love this frog, I know it would be best to leave amphibians like that in the wild.

[Qwank]

I agree. It is so easy to go to the pet store and get a bird or frog or turtle etc. and then bring them home with little or no experience. It is bad for the poor animals and everyone else who does know what they're doing. I personally bought a pac man frog a couple years ago thinking it would be easy and fun. Luckily I did some research after buying it and realized that they are more difficult to take care of than people think. I still don't agree with the fact that they should be kept in such a small tank (10 gallons is the suggested size). Even though I love this frog, I know it would be best to leave amphibians like that in the wild.

some people think the same way about fish. tangs come to mind:.

[jr_reefdweller]

The reptile and bird community should be ashamed of themselves. People buy pythons, iguanas and birds not realized how big they will get, the cost to house and care for them and how long they will live. Some birds live to 80 years. A full grown python can and has eaten a two year old child instead of it's regular diet of baby pigs. Pythons and iguanas have been released in the southeast and they cause severe problems for fish & game departments as far north as South Carolina and across all southern states to Texas. I do not agree with this bill but I understand the reasoning behind it. As with things in religion and politics, you start off with a extreme view then negotiate. I my opinion large reptiles should require a license or permit.

The people who buy pythons/reptiles without doing any research are by no means part of the reptile community. These are people who make impulse buys without thinking about long term requirements. Sometimes these people end up doing research later and it turns out fine. But, the reptile community are the people who try to INFORM these people of what they are getting into before they buy a large python or even a small python that WILL live 30-40 years.

Another thing people don't realize is how many snakes got released in Florida from hurricanes rather then people just letting them go. I'm not saying people didn't release them because they probably did but I'm sure a lot of the pythons in the wild in Florida got there from the hurricanes.

I my opinion large reptiles should require a license or permit.

I absolutely agree with this. I feel that if people were required to have a license in order to buy a reptile (any reptile) then only people who know what they are doing would be getting them. Which means none of them would be getting releases into the wild.

There is SO much misinformation going around though. On CNN the other day a man said that a boa constrictors average length is 12'+. This is just not true. You'll be hard pressed to find a boa constrictor of even 10'. The actual average length of a boa constrictor (depending on species and sex) is 6'-8' much less then 12' or even 10'.

/rant... Sorry I just feel really upset about everything that is going on around the reptile trade.

[maxxattk]

I'm pretty sure the vote for this was last week. Anyone know how it went?

[reeferpj]

i heard that it didn't go

[Bobolink]

I think the subcommittee just held a hearing last week, no vote yet. A good resource for this type of thing is http://thomas.loc.gov.

1/26/2009:
Sponsor introductory remarks on measure. (CR E142)
1/26/2009:
Referred to the House Committee on Natural Resources.
2/4/2009:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife.
4/23/2009:
Subcommittee Hearings Held.