Chronic Hair Algae and Haze( newbie member)

[gobie1313]

Help,
I'm ready to give up. I've had my new tank for almost 8 months and have yet
to be able to enjoy it. Here is the info:
135 gal reef
70lbs live rock
wet dry system
protein skimmer
3 mushroom rocks 2 button polyps
1 yellow tang, i brown tang, 3 various damsels, large tom clown, diamond gobie, 5 extra large snails, cleaner crew(150+/-hermits), 2 cleaner shrimp,
diamond back gobie
what i've done to try to eradicate this mess.
-ph 8.0 nitrite 0 ammonia 0 , nitrate 10
weekly water change 10%, r/o water and pot a bag of phosphate guard in too.
- only running my halides for 1 hour a day, running blues 9am. - 10p.m.(even tried turning lights off totally for a few days(slows down growth).
- cut feeding in half only once a day (not overfeeding)
- constantly vacuming out the algae, and even turning over the rocks( does kill the algae on underside, but topside still grows.)
- even tried an additive called algae magic which is supposed to cut the amount of oxygen to the algae.
- i added a carbon bag to combat the haze, no change
-i also get a brown layer of algae on the sand. When i turn it over, it still grows back overnight(diamond gobie helps a little)
Is it time to give this hobby up?? I'm going broke.

 

[Behrmon]

Well, won't cure the root problem but maybe either a Foxface if you bioload is not already maxed or maybe the sugar route (debatable by some). Whats in the wet-dry?

 

[gobie1313]

bio balls,
a few layers of filter pads, carbon

 

[naturebatslast]

Wet dry methods make nitrates, you may want to rethink that.
Don't add mystery/miracle additives, they never work and usually make things worse. Make sure your changing out the phospate absorber, if it's made by Kent, don't leave it in your tank beyond a few weeks. It's will only leach the phosphate out.
How old are the filters in your RO unit?
Keep your protien skimmer clean by by maintaining it weekly, emptying the cup and cleaning the inside of it.
Your also short on rock by about, IME (gulp), 50 pounds.
You don't say how your maintaining your calcium and alkalinity, and I almost want to bet that's your issue. Your levels could be really low and generating the algae issue, coupled with a phosphate issue.

 

[naturebatslast]

bio balls,
a few layers of filter pads, carbon

Absolutely no bio balls, again, that will make nitrates. Live rock is better.

 

[gobie1313]

Do you suggest i take bio balls out? or take the whole wet dry apart?Do i replace first with live rock? Do I put the live rock in where the bioballs were?
Money is a big factor right now, but i will work on the alkaline and calcium levels. I thought calcium was only important if i was mainting corals that need it? Should i get my calcium level up even though i dont have hard corals.
i use kent superbuffer dkh is that good enough to raise alkaline??What should i use?

 

[naturebatslast]

Do you suggest i take bio balls out? or take the whole wet dry apart?Do i replace first with live rock? Do I put the live rock in where the bioballs were?
Money is a big factor right now, but i will work on the alkaline and calcium levels. I thought calcium was only important if i was mainting corals that need it? Should i get my calcium level up even though i dont have hard corals.
i use kent superbuffer dkh is that good enough to raise alkaline??What should i use?

If you plan to go fish only, you could keep the wet dry and bio balls. If you go for a mixed reef or full blown reef, you'll have to lose then both. I would slowly take out the bio bals, then the wet dry. But you'll bee better off if you can get some more rock in there. Maybe keep an eye out for a tank breakdown sale here in the for sale forums.

I would read up on kalkwasser...
http://www.simplifiedreefkeeping.com/faq/17.htm
You'll have to amintain both alk and Ca for the tank, and kalkwasser is pre balanced, very easy and you just slowly add it or drip it in.
Superbuffer is fine, but the kalk will raise both your alk and Ca at the same time, and it cheaper.

 

[Jennifer]

Hair algae needs 3 things to grow:

1: Lighting
Not much we can do here. cutting back the lighting dose help but it will not cure the problem.

2: Nitrates
Wet/dry systems are notorious for creating nitrates. As sugested adding live rock instead of the bio balls will help.
some of these filters can be modified to make them more of a wet sump.
What type of filter is it? If you could post a pic we may be able to suggest a mod that would work.

3: Phosphates
Adding a good DI section to your RO will go a long way in reducing the amount of phosphates that get into the tank.
Cutting down on feeding can help too. But of course you do not want to starve your fish. If you use the frozen cubes of food make sure to rinse out the packing juice before adding to tank. A small $2 brine shrimp net helps with the rinsing.
Also running a phosphate remove also works great. But as suggested do not leave in the tank for longer than the manufacturer reccomends. Some of these products can leach phosphates back into the tank.

 

[gobie1313]

I dont understand the wet/dry producing nitrates. When i test for nitrates i always keep it at 10 and do a weekly water change. I put the phosphate bag in the barell with the r/o water and an airrator. Shouldnt all of these things should have corrected the haze and algae. The filter was made by the guy i bought the setp from. there are 2 tubes flowing into the tupperware (40g) bucket, flowing onto bio balls( i have some filter pads on top of bio balls. The balls are raised up so they are not submersed in water. On the other side of the resorvior is where i have my protein skimmer where water is pumped through it and back into the resorvior, then all the water gets pumped back into the tank and i have a carbon bag in there too.

 

[Moe_K]

Nitrates of 10 is too high for my liking. I like nitrates undetectable.
I think nitrates are your nutrient problem and the source for the algae growth.

The suggestions of removing bio balls and filter pads are just what I'd suggest.

Dripping kalkwasser is another great suggestion.

 

[afboundguy]

You could try getting a refugium w/macro to help with nitrate and phosphates. The macro would use up the nutrients that feed hair algea.

Also have you tried scrubbing the rocks with a toothbrush? I used to do this during water changes. Just stick the rock in the old water and scrub it. This always helped my tank.

 

[Aquaman_68]

Have I missed this in the mix...You never mention what type of system your using for ro/di..No mention of the tds from any unit as well...Are you using tap water? If not please explain the type of filtration for the tap water before mixing salt..Also what type of salt you using...
If you have mentioned & I missed it...I appologize...

LUK..
B

 

[Greg Hiller]

I'd not sweat the nitrates, though I agree it's a good idea to toss the bioballs. They really are not needed.

Snails and hermit crabs sometimes don't do a very good job on long hair algae. I'd go and get yourself some more big snails, I'd consider maybe another 15-20.

Also, if you can get in there one time with a stiff brush and get most of the hair algae in suspension and then do a large water change, siphoning out most of the algae I think it would help.

I agree it'd be nice to have more rock, but I don't think that is your problem.

May I ask, where did you get the rock, and was it particularly 'alive' when you got it?

The question about your source for makeup water is a good one....what is it?

You mentioned you have sand. How fine is the grain size?

 

[Greg Hiller]

One other question, does the hair algae look like little 'ferns' at the tips? If so, the herbivores might not like it much and that could be a problem.

 

[ReeferMedic]

Not a fix, but this will help keep it in check while you figure out what the problem is, if it is a diadema urchin.

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67439

I had an outbreak that lasted the better part of 12 months in an established tank I added dry rock to. I added a diadema urchin and it slurped both bryopsis and hair algae down like it was spagetti. Also, Orangespot Rabbitfish are the best herbivorous fish for hair algae and bryopsis imo. They get quite large though. It won't go away until you fix the root problem, but I got sick of pulling the algae out every night.


http://www.melevsreef.com/id/diadema.html

 

[gobie1313]

answers about water

I apologize for not being to technical about my r/o system. It has 3 canisters, and i replaced 2 of the white filters fairly recently. When i run the r/o water into the barrell, i put a pouch with phosphate guard, and charcoal.
I went back into the LFS to talk more about the algae. He told me it is not hairy algae!!! He told me to get my ph up to 8.3 and get my calcium level up
to 400.( my ph is good but my calcium level is only 320). I've been adding turbo calcium every morning.
About the algae, its soft and brownish and comes off easily when i siphon the water. LFS told me that hairy algae has roots and doesnt brush off easily. He said as long as i keep the ph and calcium up it should curtail the growth. What do you think?
Any ideas on the haze, LFS told me its a bactarial bloom and it has to run its course.

 

[biggyclops]

high CA and MG helps IMHO... CA in the 400-500 range and MG in the 1500

 

[gobie1313]

mg, is that magnesium, do i need to add that along with calcium, and DKH

 

[marine mike]

yes, that is magnesium. will get used up, but not as fast as alk and calcium. your calcium should be pretty stable though because you don't have a lot of consumption going on. I would echo the previous posts to lose the bioballs and the pads IMO. Your nitrates should be as close to zero as you can get. I think I would suspect your ro supply for the phosphate source which is what could be your issue. I tried phosguard in a bag as well which worked only minimally. Moving to a phosban reactor made a huge difference and my algae is almost completely gone after about 2 1/2 weeks of using it.

 

[Aquaman_68]

Higher Alk/KH will help to curve algae growth... Problem is...some forms of algae feed off dying or decaying algae...It's kind of a big circle so to speak.... The best thing is to start off with good water... That is why I asked about your ro/di.. You might want to rethink your ro system...It starts there... If you need help with it just shoot me a pm...

Once you get an organic level in the tank it takes time to remove it cause it ties itself up in the porus LR & the sandbed... Water changes will help it but the organics will leach back out of the rock... So it is best to do smaller daily frequent water changes over the course of a three week period & then go to a weekly schedule....


Might not be a bad idea to remove some of the sand & replace it with Live sand that can be purchased online rather cheap... (usually 50.00 shipped to your door....)


HTH,
B