20 Long Sump Designs?

[STiTCH87]

So I am building a 20G Long Sump. I already have the 4 glass panels cut to fit perfect.
I now need a design plan. I was originally going to do the drain from overflow into area 1, then one plate 9" high, then the second area was going to be my refugium, then a 9" plate, then a 9" plate at 1-2" off the tank bottom, then another 9" plate, and in the third area I was going to have the return line with a ball valve tee line draining back into the refugium any water that was redirected in lowering the flow back to the DT tank when I match the GPH of the overflow.

BUT...

Now i'm seeing designs where its the overflow area, then return, then refugium.
And i'm seeing people put the bubble trap first too then the single baffle last.

What would you all recommend? My return pump is small and the reef octopus skimmer has a small footprint and runs 8-10" of water. So I have room to work with.

 

[Turbosnail]

I did the drain/return/fuge I put a tee in the return with a gate valve to feed the fuge that way I could control the flow.

 

[shawn708]

I did the drain/return/fuge I put a tee in the return with a gate valve to feed the fuge that way I could control the flow.

+1 I have 2 drains, 1 drain full blown to the left section where the skimmer is with a bubble trap then the 2nd drain I have a tee with a valve to control the flow to the fuge and the other side goes to the left side of the sump, both sides overflow to the middle section which is the return.

 

[STiTCH87]

I did the drain/return/fuge I put a tee in the return with a gate valve to feed the fuge that way I could control the flow.

That's exactly the design i'm leaning toward. Did you have the bubble trap on the drain end or the refugium end?

Does that same gate valve also control the flow back into the DT tank? or do you have a second?

Pictures or draw-ups would be extremely appreciated. =]

 

[Pat02026]

Fuge end isn't going to produce much of any bubbles, a single baffle on that end is fine; you want to stop the bubbles on the end where the majority of the drain flow, plus the skimmer may add some bubbles as well.

 

[STiTCH87]

Fuge end isn't going to produce much of any bubbles, a single baffle on that end is fine; you want to stop the bubbles on the end where the majority of the drain flow, plus the skimmer may add some bubbles as well.

...very good point... Lol.

Sounds kind of obvious after you said it. Haha. IDKY I didn't realize that.

So where to I put valves for the return? I know I need a tee going from the return line to the fuge, and that that line to the fuge needs a gate valve, but can I put that one vlave somewhere in the plumbing so it controls both return flow and fuge flow in a constant ratio, or do I need two valves? I was thinking if I have 100% flow and turn it down to 75% to the DT tank it could let 25% into the fuge.

Or am I incorrect to think that design, or is it a bad design?

EDIT: Found this photo on MelevsReef and seems like a pretty good idea: (With gate valves instead of ball valves though)

 

[Pat02026]

When I set up my fuge, I tee off the drain from the tank so your getting the nutrient rich water direct from the display; IMO the benefit is twofold here. 1 your supplying the fuge with elements and life unfiltered (or skimmed) 2 it's more effectively being the filter it's supposed to be, since it's not being fed already "clean" water.
Johnk suggested cd cases as baffle spacers, while assembling the bubble trap etc. it works very well. That's how I made my current sump. I'm going to try and find a pic of my old 20 long sump for you. In my fuge area, there were two pieces of acrylic. I made a bottom (this should be at a slight angle to allow air to escape if you go this route) and a side so the fuge was literally a raised up chamber in the return section, allowing enough room for the return pump and a pair of 300w heaters that sat under the fuge section. Really the benefit here was room for my heaters. I don't think you will need that on your tank since that much heater will be excessive for ~55 gal.

 

[Pat02026]

Found it

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?107790-New-sump&highlight=

 

[STiTCH87]

Well the thing is, skimmers only remove around 30% off waste anyways, so it's a debatable subject as to whether or not it's better for the refugium.

Also, to have the dirty water from the DT tank go straight to the refugium, that water will never reach the skimmer. So it's only as clean as the refugium will allow, and then it gets pumped back into the DT.

I would think cleaning the water with a skimmer, then having it sent to the refugium for a final polishing before going to the DT would be better?
I'd think there would still be enough nutrients in there for a refugium to feed still?

Or this this one of those 50/50 two sided situation where some believe one theory over the other?

 

[Pat02026]

Truthfully you may have a better idea with using the fuge as a "polish" before sending it back up to the display. The last system did not run long enough for me to determine wether or not the fuge would have become a detritus trap; my current fuge which is not part of my sump but a seperate tank has a small bare bottom chamber that it gets fed raw tank water before it enters the DSB/mangroves. I will say that at least monthly I have to suck out collected detritus. Not to add any confusion to the mix here, but that is where my waste water pump is located for my auto water change system. I stir it up a bit when I kick that pump on and it sucks all the crap right out.

 

[STiTCH87]

Hmm. Not a bad idea. But now you have me worried about detritus build up in the refugium. Lol. Though knowing how much of an OCD Reef addict I am, I doubt i'd ever let it get that dirty.
Can you safely rinse chaeto in RO water and put it back into the refugium if it has a lot of detritus trapped in it?

 

[mchartier]

I just drew this up for someone else, the issue they had was the length of their heaters and getting them to fit along with a fug. So I am building and acrylic box for the refugium that is 8x8 and allows the heaters to lay on each side. I will be adding teeth to the front of the box also. I am using black acrylic to help cut down on light going to the main section of the fug also, plus its what I have on hand. This is also a 20L

 

[Andy V]

I just did a 20L sump. Very simple design...I did nothing to it. I have it draining into a mesh (not felt) filter sock on the left, skimmer in the middle, return pump on right. No baffles at all, and no micro bubbles at all.

A refugium that small is not going to do much if anything for the tank. Just my opinion, but I think your life would be much easier down the road without it.

 

[mchartier]

Andy I understand what you are talking about the size of the refugium but it will only be used for cheato, just means trimming it more often

 

[STiTCH87]

Yes as mchartier stated, it's not so much going to be a fuge as it is just a chaeto (caulerpera actually i'm planning on) farm.