acro bleaching issue, could it be too much light?

[NeverlosT]

Hey all,
I am having my first little problem and wanted some help getting to the bottom of it. It is currently only effecting a few acro's (tri-colors mostly, but one birdsnest) I have tested my water regularly, and I have had shops test my water and my parameters are all good (maybe calcium a bit low): :.
Temp-76.5
Ca-385
Alk-8.75
PO4-0
NO3-0
NO4-0
Specific Gravity-1.0255
Mag: 1500
20g water change every 2 weeks, reef crystals salt.
DI water top off
My Korallin reactor is running now and slowly over the course of a few weeks raising the calcium and Alk.

I know it could be a phosphates issue leaching from the rock, since I do have some hair algae, but the problem with the algae is quickly abating and the problem with the bleaching is getting worse, and only effecting some acros. I have some GFO on order and will add it to my canister filter. I have had to move several corals to shadowy spots in the tank and they now look happier, is it possible that the corals just really do not like the amount of light I am giving them?
I run 2x 250w HQI 14K ushio and 2x48"T5's.
actinics on for 9 hrs/day and MH on for 6.5 or 7hrs/day

Thanks for the advise, I appreciate any input.

 

[stingythingy45]

I don't think it's lighting.
I have a Larry Jackson Acro that's at the top of my rock under the same lighting as yours.
Sounds more like issues with alk and calcium.

 

[DoctaQ]

well the alk and ca dont look that bad, how long have you had these pieces?

 

[stingythingy45]

Both calcium and alk are low.
Calcium should be at least 400-450 ppm.
And alk should be 9-11 dkh.
I would even venture to say that the temp. is low at 76 deg.

 

[tigerslacrosse4]

+1^ up ur alk and cal and see what happens...

 

[NeverlosT]

roger that, I will set the temp to 78, I think that appears to be what most folks run at (was trying to save $$ on power).

I am trying to get the calcium up there, but the reactor does not appear to be raising it very quickly, even upped the dosing recently. Do you suggest dosing kalkwasser until I can get the reactor up to speed?

I know that those are the "ideal" ca and alk #'s for optimum growth, but I am pretty sure being just barely beneath those should not cause bleaching right? I mean, wouldnt it be a more widespread problem then?

The pieces are all relatively new (~1month), I have them lower in the tank, but geez, I cannot imagine I would have to put an acro in the shadows? Also, when I got the tri-color I got three small frags of it. I put one low and two high. One of the high ones is fine and the other two are bleaching, so it is a straaange problem.

The birdsnest wasnt in the best shape when I got it but it is certainly not recovering...

another question... what pH are you folks running your reactors if they have ARM in them? I use ARM with some dolomite in my Korallin 1502 reactor and am running it at 6.6, can I get away with a higher pH in there and use less CO2? Just looking for data points.

 

[DoctaQ]

it seemed to me that his levels are pretty close to nsw? also if it were a chem problem wouldnt it affect all his coral?

how bad is the bleaching?

 

[MikeG]

Lots of people run alkalinity around 8dkh with great success including all the people that run Zeovit since there levels need to be close to NSW. Have you checked to make sure you don't have any pests in your tank? What do you have for flow? What fish are in there?

Your parameters look great to me with the posiible exception of calcium being a bit low and magnesium being a bit high. I try to keep that at 1200-1300ppm.

 

[tigerslacrosse4]

if the mag is high that would do it. I think i overlooked that one sorry.

 

[NeverlosT]

My flow is high (any higher and I am going to have to remove all the sand because tornadoes are starting, but I also tried a lower flow spot to no avail) and the tank only started 4 months ago and every acro coming in has been dipped in lugols and interceptor so I do not think it is bugs but I will take a very close look. When I get home I will take a picture and post it up. The bleaching seems to be just like I have read about in books, the tissue of the coral is getting lighter and releasing its colorful symbiotic algae, it makes the coral look like it is fading and eventually just clear tissue over a white skeleton.

Meanwhile my montis are thrilled and coloring up like crazy, my other acro's are growing with full polyp extension, and I am left wondering what is going on here...

the only mag addition I am doing is putting replacing 20% of the ARM in the reactor with dolomite (as instructed by Jeremy at CRA). Could that be driving the mag up so much? I need a mag test kit because driving to the LFS to test my mag is getting old... haha. I guess I could take some of the dolomite out

it seems weird to me that since the only addition of Mag is through the reactor, which also supplies ALK and CA, that my ALK and CA could be so low and my mag so high. I think I need another MAG measurement...

 

[stingythingy45]

I've run at mag 1500 with no issues.
Have you had any drastic alk swings lately?

 

[NeverlosT]

just a slow creep from 7 to ~8.5 over the last two weeks as the calcium reactor started doing its thing. nothing too sudden. I have been checking the alk every few days and it is just a very slow rise.

What folks have said has me worried about my proportion of dolomite in the reactor, I have ~20% and I guess some people run less (like 5%). But I was under the impression that 1500 for the mag wasnt too bad.

 

[SteveDola]

Few Questions: did the frags come from a T5 lighting set up? what alk level did the frags come from? how did you acclimate them? do you have a pic of the frags?

comments:
alk at 8.5 is perfectly acceptable and in my opinion is perfered...main key is stability.
I would consider reducing your dolomite to drop the mag level alittle, should aim for 1350 but 1500 is better than having it low. I ran my mag high at 1600 for a couple months when trying to battle hair algea...although the HA never went away entirely, my corals didnt suffer.

 

[NeverlosT]

yeah I am battling hair algae at the moment and the high mag is helping (along with the turbo snails!)
I might reduce the dolomite levels a bit, it is a pain to get it out of there though!

my thinking is that the frags came from three places so there are likely a few things going on.
1. the largest tri-color frag came from rusty at the last BRS meeting, he had it under flourescent there, I am not sure if he has T5 or not, but if he does, I may have shocked the coral with the higher PAR and relocating it to lower in the tank may help. But I ALSO bought another green acro frag from him which is FRONT and CENTER and TOP in the tank and still has all of its color! Weird...

2. the birdsnest came from my buddy gardiners tank, I believe he runs higher alkalinity than I do, so maybe the lower ALK is hurting that frag, but the other frags that were living in his tank and are now in mine are doing great (he held several for me for about a month) so the plot thickens...

3. The other tri-colors came from the last BRS meeting purchased from the gentleman who ran the coral propogation workshop at BRASS. not sure what his tank conditions are.

4. maybe my magnesium is the culprit, even though all other corals seem to be cool with it.

I think the current winning solution is:
--> reduce the ratio of dolomite in the reactor by half and move the troubled corals to a bit less light but still high flow.

 

[SteveDola]

light increases can definitely burn sps tips. Ive had to start keeping my sps on the sandbed inorder to slowly raise them up over time.

 

[SharkLover]

light increases can definitely burn sps tips. Ive had to start keeping my sps on the sandbed inorder to slowly raise them up over time.

+1.
Especially if the corals coming from PC , or T5's... start low and wait 2 weeks. go mid. wait 2 weeks. then go high. slowlllllyyyyyyy

 

[stingythingy45]

Consider getting a second check on that Alk from a fellow reefer.
Also,high Magnesium does nothing for HA.It's mostly used to help with bryopsis.

 

[NeverlosT]

haha man, I envy you guys that have learned about this stuff over a matter of years. When you try and drink from the fire hose and just read a ton, especially online, you get differing "facts" left and right. ugh!

Ok. the plan still stands, move the upset acro's to the sandbed (let them acclimate slowly and hopefully regain their color), and cut back a bit on the dolomite in the reactor when it is convenient to take some out. I am also toying with the idea of switching to some 20K halides, get a little bluer color and less par so I roast the corals a bit less and get more pop... its a possibility.

I will bug my buddy gardiner who has offered to check my water out, he is very knowledgeable about this stuff. Are there any other reefers in southern RI that might be able to help?

 

[DoctaQ]

the gentleman who did the coral propagation workshop is greg,
i think he runs halides on all his tanks and he uses a calcium reactor too.
his frag tank is very shallow and he has like over 1000w on his display tank, so there is no lack of light there. pics would help but it seems to me like a wait and see game.

 

[RayD]

What other kinds of corals in the tank? Any large leathers? Large leathers and other softies give off toxins and the Acros always lose.

Also how old is the tank. I never had any luck with Acros until my tank was three years established, then one day BAM everything stopped dying and have been great since.

YMMV

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