christmas wrasse????

[Cherokee_Dude]

Just saying mine doesn't have a spot. FWIW, I purchased mine as an adult female.

 

[Dave McReeferson]

I don't see how the eye spot is a poor reference in this case? The eye spot is a characteristic of the fish that should be used in proper identification.

Judging by comparrison to the other tank inhabitants and the fact that this fish was just purchased it is pretty clear that fish is not an adult.

FWIW, males of the species loose the spots and females retain them.

Different specimens will lose their spots at somewhat different "ages". To my knowledge there is no set age a which the spots fade out, some may lose it earlier, so may lose it a bit later. As far as this particular specimen goes, that shot certainly cannot be used to gauge age IMO anyway, and, when the fish was purchased is nearly irrelevant, the fish could have been collected at any age, I doubt they are being bred in the back room of the LFS (unfortunately).

If the fish in question had an eye spot, that might be used to narrow down the possibilities, but the lack of an eye spot proves absolutely nothing whatsoever, it is neither here not there.

I hope you did not take my original post to be "calling you out" or anything, I was just trying to point out that in this particular instance, I don't think that that characteristic is a very good one for IDing the fish in question.

 

[deuceb]

thank you

i will try to get a new pic tonight and repost thanks for all the info im with u gina i also think ornate leapord wrasse

 

[deuceb]

a little better

had to get my eight year old to take these

 

[JackTheReefer]

Just saying mine doesn't have a spot. FWIW, I purchased mine as an adult female.

If you purchased your fish as an adult female and it did not have a dorsal spot, you purchased a male, also FYI, these fish are sexually dymorphic and will change sex.

Different specimens will lose their spots at somewhat different "ages". To my knowledge there is no set age a which the spots fade out, some may lose it earlier, so may lose it a bit later. As far as this particular specimen goes, that shot certainly cannot be used to gauge age IMO anyway, and, when the fish was purchased is nearly irrelevant, the fish could have been collected at any age, I doubt they are being bred in the back room of the LFS (unfortunately).

If the fish in question had an eye spot, that might be used to narrow down the possibilities, but the lack of an eye spot proves absolutely nothing whatsoever, it is neither here not there.

I hope you did not take my original post to be "calling you out" or anything, I was just trying to point out that in this particular instance, I don't think that that characteristic is a very good one for IDing the fish in question.

As you said the fish was not tank raised and was wild caught, with that being said you commonly see fish in the 3"-4" range collected/sold that are nowhere near mature, Im sure you have been around the hobby long enough to know adult fish such as these are rarely collected and if so they usually come with a nice price commonly called "XXL Show".

While I will agree with you as to that I don't know exactly when a fish reaches maturity, I will say the majority I have seen come in as juveniles with doral spots and retain them for some time which is why I personally use them for purpose of identification.

It's quite possible all I have read regarding these fish over the years is now outdated and I need some new material regarding proper identification techniques, any recommendations?

I guess this is why I usually don't post in here because there is someone always willing to question your practices or answer a question the same way for the 10th time.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Definitely Leopard Wrasse

 

[Gina McReeferson]

I guess this is why I usually don't post in here because there is someone always willing to question your practices or answer a question the same way for the 10th time.

i will try to get a new pic tonight and repost thanks for all the info im with u gina i also think ornate leapord wrasse

I still think it is.

 

[Dave McReeferson]

It's quite possible all I have read regarding these fish over the years is now outdated and I need some new material regarding proper identification techniques, any recommendations?

We have probably read much of the same stuff (you don't see whole lot of new publications being put out on this stuff unfortunately). I was basing what I said off of the old standby books we have all read as well as personal experience. I have seen Leopards change their spots (pardon the pun ) in our system while still pretty small, I'd say well within the commonly collected size range (like you said ~3-4"). Perhaps our fish was more an exception to the rule than a common thing, but it shows me that it can happen. You never know with stuff like that, that is why I would not look at the lack of such markings as definitive, but that is just my experience, and I freely admit, I am no expert.

I guess this is why I usually don't post in here because there is someone always willing to question your practices or answer a question the same way for the 10th time.

I wish you would not take it that way, as you know, some of those "outdated" books are lacking in info and most are probably not likely to be updated any time soon, this type of discussion and back and forth can serve to further all of our knowledge, who spends more time observing these fish and their behaviors and traits than than us the captive reefers?

 

[JackTheReefer]

We have probably read much of the same stuff (you don't see whole lot of new publications being put out on this stuff unfortunately). I was basing what I said off of the old standby books we have all read as well as personal experience. I have seen Leopards change their spots (pardon the pun ) in our system while still pretty small, I'd say well within the commonly collected size range (like you said ~3-4"). Perhaps our fish was more an exception to the rule than a common thing, but it shows me that it can happen. You never know with stuff like that, that is why I would not look at the lack of such markings as definitive, but that is just my experience, and I freely admit, I am no expert.



I wish you would not take it that way, as you know, some of those "outdated" books are lacking in info and most are probably not likely to be updated any time soon, this type of discussion and back and forth can serve to further all of our knowledge, who spends more time observing these fish and their behaviors and traits than than us the captive reefers?

I will chalk this up to a learning experience, I think our discrepancy is due to the fact I have worked in the retail aquarium industry and conspecific species such as Wrasse are not commonly kept together in the short time they are housed due to conspecific aggression therefore the need for one to develop may not be required, I'm not sure if you keep multiples of the same species, Im assuming this is where our difference comes from, my guess is the size of your aquarium enables you to house such species together, something that is not recommended for most.

The closest I have come to personally keeping multiple conspecific species such as Halichoeres is in my current tank, at the moment I am currently keeping a Halichoeres Cosmetes (Christmas Wrasse) and Halichoeres Chrysus (Yellow Wrasse), while of different sub species there was still the dreaded conspecific agression.

I just gave my opinion what I thought his fish was and a few characteristics to look for in a Chrismas Wrasse along with a couple attached pics for reference. I didn't think it was going to go this far.

No hard feelings, I think we are just expressing different points of view.

 

[deuceb]

thank you

thanks everyone