Dwarf Angel Question

[Frag Freaks]

My tank 38 gallon tank has been establish for a month and a half. I want to add a flame angel as my last fish. Does that tank have to be a certain amount of maturity before i can add an angel? Also i currently have 2 false percs and a yellow watchman goby these will be compatible with the flame angel right.

 

[Moe_K]

Are you going to keep corals or clams?
If so, you might want to re-think the addition of a flame angel.
They often nip corals and clam mantles.

 

[Frag Freaks]

i was planning on adding corals. If not a flame angle what would be another fish i could add. What would be the max fishload i could carry in my tank.

 

[this is me]

My flame is a nipper at sps corals but leave my clams alone.

 

[Moe_K]

i was planning on adding corals. If not a flame angle what would be another fish i could add. What would be the max fishload i could carry in my tank.

The max fish load is subjective. It'll depend on your sump, your skimmer, and several other factors that escape me right this very second.
As for other fish: How about an assessor? How about a fairy or flasher wrasse? How about a royal gramma? A chalk bass? A yellow tail damsel?

 

[Frag Freaks]

no damsels

 

[theLIQUIDzoo]

dwarf angel is not the same as a flame angel, correct?
when i think dwarf, i'm thinking pygmy and maybe that's where i'm getting confused.

a pygmy in a 38 fine, but a flame? idunno, you tell me.

 

[RichConley]

On Dwarf angels: They will pick at everything, and a lot of people take this as them "nipping" or attacking corals. They are substrate feeders, and will eat algae,pods,etc off of anything. The problem is, they've gotten a very bad reputation, and anytime anyone sees them near a coral, its "OH MY GOD!!!11!!!one, Hes NiPPING my CORALS!!"

They eat in a manner very similar to a mandarin. Although if someone said a mandarin was "nipping" thier corals, they'd be called daft. Its all reputation. They just kind of wander around and take a swipe at everything. For about 80% of the angels I've seen, it never gets any worse than this, and it doesnt bother the corals.

Some of them do get bad, but probably 80% of the ones that get called bad are incidences of "OMG, IT TOUCHED MY CORAL AND ITS AN ANGEL!11!!!1one." A bad reputation can be a scary thing.

As for reputations, I've never heard anyone say Tangs are bad with clams, but I think every LFS I've been to that has a tang in its clam vatt, I've seen the tang attacking the clams. Again, they dont have the reputation, so they dont get called on it.

Again though, there is a chance that a dwarf will start becoming a problem, just dont freak out the first time you see him pick at a coral, wait till you see damage.

 

[Duds]

I have a flame angel in my 29 gallon and i have never seen it pick at corals, me myself my max fish load is 5 fish one died recently (carpet surfing)
Duds

 

[Frag Freaks]

I have a flame angel in my 29 gallon and i have never seen it pick at corals, me myself my max fish load is 5 fish one died recently (carpet surfing)
Duds

Really all in a 29 gallon. I only have 3 in my 38 so far and was only going to add one more but that give me second thoughts maybe 2 more small fish. What kind of setup does ur 29 have. Do you have a sump? refugium? skimmer? lighting?

 

[redpaulhus]

I like about 3 fish in a 29-38 gallon (ie 30-36" long) tank (but I'm admittedly conservative on fish stocking). My 40g reef had 3-4 fish for the past few years, and two of those were neon gobies !

 

[nickyblase]

A lot of the bioload will also depend on what size fish you are looking to add. Read: not size now, but the size it will become. And you'll need to think hard about the wellbeing of the fish before adding them.

As an example, I was in my LFS yesterday ordering a dwarf lion for my 65 FOWLR tank, and when I was looking in the quick reference book for min. tank size, it said 30 Gallons!! What a joke! These things get to be 7 inches plus, AND are BIG eaters. The water quality would be horrible if they went into a 30G, not to mention the fact that they couldn't move around much at all.

If you have a good strong skimmer and a sump (and make sure you've got good flow in the display, because without that, even the best skimmer won't help a whole lot)... then I'd say you could have 5-6 SMALL fish in a 38.

A pygmy angel stays smaller than a flame, but either way it will be a crapshoot with the individual fish as to how aggressively they go after corals/clams (and how well fed they are). If you are hooked on having one, AND want to have a reef tank, I'd do one of 2 things:

a). Keep an eye out for one that is in someone's tank that they can't keep anymore that is already known that it doesn't pick at the corals you want to keep, -or-
b). Test the fish out with some inexpensive small corals and see how it does. If it does okay, then you could probably slowly add more corals and keep an eye out.


Otherwise, there are many wrasses out there that are reef safe. I have a Solarensis in my 38, and it is beautiful. Other options could be - chromis, Banggai cardinals, Royal Gramma, a pair of Firefish.... Good luck!

 

[Duds]

i have no sump refusgium skimmer, and for lighting i have 2*65 watt pcs, i dont do any water changes, and for fish I have 2 percs, 1 sixline wrasse, 1 flame angel, and a mandarin or a diamond watchman goby, and I keep lps, softies, zoas, anemone, cleaner shrimp, and the old clean-up crew
good luck LMK what you go with
Duds

 

[Frag Freaks]

really and ur corals are fine under that lighting and an anenome. I have 150watts VHO so i guess that would be fine for all the same stuff u have as well.

 

[RichConley]

Otherwise, there are many wrasses out there that are reef safe. I have a Solarensis in my 38, and it is beautiful. Other options could be - chromis, Banggai cardinals, Royal Gramma, a pair of Firefish.... Good luck!

I'd question the suggestion of a fairy wrasse over a dwarf angel as far as tank size go. I've kept 2 fairy wrasses (solarensis, and cyanopleura) and 2 dwarf anges (coral beauty, and potters) and the fairy wrasses definitely are bigger swimmers than the angels.

As to your note about trying to find a tanked one first, that is always a great idea. Anytime you can get a fish from another hobbiest is good.


As far as VHO vs PCs, PCs put out more lumens per watt, but VHOs are typically much higher watt, so I dont know what to tell you.

 

[Duds]

really and ur corals are fine under that lighting and an anenome. I have 150watts VHO so i guess that would be fine for all the same stuff u have as well.

the one thing I cant keep is sps except for chalices, vho will be plenty for corals and a bta, good luck
Duds

 

[nickyblase]

Good point Rich on the wrasse vs. dwarf angel - didn't think of that when I was typing!

150 watts of light over a 38G isn't a whole lot. Duds has 130 over a 29, which is a different height than a 38. I'd prob start with lower light corals - maybe some low light mushrooms, zoos, leathers, etc and seeing how they do before getting into something like an anemone.

 

[RichConley]

Good point Rich on the wrasse vs. dwarf angel - didn't think of that when I was typing!

150 watts of light over a 38G isn't a whole lot. Duds has 130 over a 29, which is a different height than a 38. I'd prob start with lower light corals - maybe some low light mushrooms, zoos, leathers, etc and seeing how they do before getting into something like an anemone.

Still, quality over quantity. I'm 100% sure duds could grow (lightwise..not necessarily nutrientwise) about 80% of the SPS out there, he'd just be very restricted to where he put it. THats neither here nor there though.


You've got 3 fish in a tank thats been up a month and a half. Give it some time.

 

[Duds]

no i really cant keep them i have had a digita, and a capricornias and neither survived at the top of my tank
Duds