erikjphillips
Non-member
http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/sections/news/local-news/fish-collecting-ban-reso-passes-council.html
That cant be good.........
That cant be good.........
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Hawaii Ban
- Thread starter erikjphillips
- Start date
delta
Impatient Reefer
It is only a matter of time before it is all shut down. Many of the industry speaker have been telling us this for years, "It isn't if, it is when" Not the first time it has been proposed either.
We better start concentrating on propagation to save the reefs and our hobby. Where might one have heard this before? Oh yeah it is our group charter
That is my issue with the fact so many staple corals have been lost in the club. When the bans come many corals will be gone forever in the hobby.
We better start concentrating on propagation to save the reefs and our hobby. Where might one have heard this before? Oh yeah it is our group charter
That is my issue with the fact so many staple corals have been lost in the club. When the bans come many corals will be gone forever in the hobby.
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aiaman
Non-member
as much as I would like to see fish and corals in my tank my respect has to be with the animals in their environment.
We use our tanks to represent what reefs from around the world resemble, so it should be our passion to preserve everything about the reef.
IMO nature needs us to be her/his most staunch supporter to protect and educate and preserve when needed.
We use our tanks to represent what reefs from around the world resemble, so it should be our passion to preserve everything about the reef.
IMO nature needs us to be her/his most staunch supporter to protect and educate and preserve when needed.
Bobbofin
Non-member
Sometimes the few and the mis-informed get the attention because they have a louder voice and more lawyers. This is not a case of right or wrong, it's a case of the sqeekiest wheel getting the oil. I am rather shocked that salt water aquarium companys such as SeaChem, Kent, Marineland, Elos, Red Sea, importers, distributors and others are not mobilizing so the other side can be heard. Let's be honest, the Hawiian govt doesn't care a rats a** about the individual hobbyist. The companies that cater to salt water aquarists have the most to lose. The companies can mobilize individual aquarists and reef clubs as a unified voice. I'm sure Greg and the BOD would give them space here on BRS to do that. There's not much I can do sitting here in NH. But the those companies could hire a researcher to go to the hearings and plead our case. I've read a lot of the reports dealing with this. The other side does have some good points but most species are not being deminished. There is a white list of less than 100 species that are allowed to be taken and another list of thousands that are not allowed. Snorkel Bob claims that Naso and Achilles Tangs are diminishing but 90% of these fishes are actually taken for food. The actually eat them in Hawaii! There is a gross amount of mis-information, mis-truths and outright lies that should be confronted but someone with some backing and research experience must go to the hearings and present it. Right now the over emotional side is getting all the attention.
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delta
Impatient Reefer
This was one part of Hawaii. Fact is the reef industry has done it's damage and then some. Any time colonies are taken(no need what so ever) they are doing damage to reefs. The industry still collect many fish that can not survive in captivity as well as other livestock.
Too many still want to find the latest greatest and that needs to change as if we do not build in hobby livestock when they shut it all down we will all be out of luck. Sad part is many of the hardy corals we used to have in the hobby are long gone. Good thing are that some of the vendors are aquaculturing and mariculturing corals.
Problems on both sides & too many in the hobby are justifying what we do and not taking the issue serious. All it take is one vote, in the right place, and it is all over. The industry is not prepared and the hobbyist are not fully supporting the effort to move in that direction, not even close to where the support needs to be .
Too many still want to find the latest greatest and that needs to change as if we do not build in hobby livestock when they shut it all down we will all be out of luck. Sad part is many of the hardy corals we used to have in the hobby are long gone. Good thing are that some of the vendors are aquaculturing and mariculturing corals.
Problems on both sides & too many in the hobby are justifying what we do and not taking the issue serious. All it take is one vote, in the right place, and it is all over. The industry is not prepared and the hobbyist are not fully supporting the effort to move in that direction, not even close to where the support needs to be .
What percentage of the livestock comes from Hawaii? Even if it gets banned in the US, there are other countries that will continue to harvest and sell marine life. The selection may change, but I think as long as there are buyers there will be sellers.
delta
Impatient Reefer
If it get banned in the US, importers will be shut down as well. This is something that has been looming for some time. Bills have been brought up that would have made it illegal to even own corals. Talk to anyone in the industry it is not "if" it is "when". By moving to aquaculturing/mariculturing and breeding more captive fish it will give the industry a leg to stand on.
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delta
Impatient Reefer
Well your not factoring in the issue is parasites(namely AEFW) which are widely spread within the BRS which in short order reduces the number available for trade.
You make is sound so simple. But many of the corals that used to be quite common in the BRS, that were extremely hardy and easy to grow no longer exist. People got bored with them as they wanted other corals, not the same old things everyone had. As well the club has had many rounds with AEFW. Many were tricolors and/or had interesting growth patterns. So what happens when the industry is cut off from new corals and then is hit with irresponsible reef keeping? Let alone a vendor pool that would not have the resources to continue. Fish would be limited as many are just not being bread widely enough.
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Well ok sorry that's not exactly what I meant. I was referring more to people gaining bragging rights by making some advancement in keeping corals that were previously difficult/impossible. That doesn't seem to happen anymore. It's not that it's super easy, but there's tons of people out there who are doing it too.
On the breeding front, there is so much to be discovered in terms of rearing the vast majority of species. And as this thread shows, it's a very hot topic. So for those looking for that old school challenge and looking to get some bragging rights by advancing the hobby, there are lots of opportunities for discoveries in breeding.
What are the corals that are getting lost? Perhaps we should identify them and maybe we could organize efforts to try and get them back? I sort of view that as a different topic, but I'd be interested in that if you think we could do it.
On the breeding front, there is so much to be discovered in terms of rearing the vast majority of species. And as this thread shows, it's a very hot topic. So for those looking for that old school challenge and looking to get some bragging rights by advancing the hobby, there are lots of opportunities for discoveries in breeding.
What are the corals that are getting lost? Perhaps we should identify them and maybe we could organize efforts to try and get them back? I sort of view that as a different topic, but I'd be interested in that if you think we could do it.
jango
Non-member
There information is fine they even printed it in the article. The most common fish collected there are thriving and growing in numbers. The problem is that charter dive companies (much higher revenue for the state) and tourist attractions are what the islands are all about. The scuba/snorkeling tourism does not want to see collectors while diving its bad for sales.
aiaman
Non-member
I have experienced 1st hand when I visited Hawaii last with the death of many coral heads
much of it was due to the impact of the tourist industry and the lack of knowledge provided to the daily tourist
We went snorkeling in Wiamea Bay and when the people got off the boat they stepped right onto the coral, breaking arms, damaging polyps
and when you try and talk to the offenders or boat captains they don't take it too well
the tourist & boats keep going to other areas as soon as there is sufficient damage done
and if there is no coral then it isn't long before the fish are gone as well
just look at Hanauma Bay on Oahu
this used to be a great place to see coral and fish, Moray Eels, everything
Now all the coral is dead and there is nothing to see anymore
still a great beach but everything is dead
this is not the only place where this happens
all over the islands coral is dying and as much as I would love to keep the ban off I believe it becomes important to manage trade to insure something will be left
much of it was due to the impact of the tourist industry and the lack of knowledge provided to the daily tourist
We went snorkeling in Wiamea Bay and when the people got off the boat they stepped right onto the coral, breaking arms, damaging polyps
and when you try and talk to the offenders or boat captains they don't take it too well
the tourist & boats keep going to other areas as soon as there is sufficient damage done
and if there is no coral then it isn't long before the fish are gone as well
just look at Hanauma Bay on Oahu
this used to be a great place to see coral and fish, Moray Eels, everything
Now all the coral is dead and there is nothing to see anymore
still a great beach but everything is dead
this is not the only place where this happens
all over the islands coral is dying and as much as I would love to keep the ban off I believe it becomes important to manage trade to insure something will be left
mordibv
Non-member
Taken from a interview with Dr William Walsh of DAR
Most this is centered around West Hawaii. I do understand we need to be aware about this.
Taken from a interview with Dr William Walsh of DAR
When you compare numbers like the commercial reef catch in 2010 to be about 50,000 vs 400,000 recreational reef fish .Maui rates are even higher @ 41 times more than the west hawaii @ 5.7 times .If one excludes yellow tangs .. he states that yellow tangs are included in the Maui numbers .
To me it seems kinda harsh to take it out on the hobby industry as a whole . It is what it is but I cannot see the council taking it out on the commercial aquarium industry when the recreational reef catch appears to be the issue .
Most this is centered around West Hawaii. I do understand we need to be aware about this.
Taken from a interview with Dr William Walsh of DAR
When you compare numbers like the commercial reef catch in 2010 to be about 50,000 vs 400,000 recreational reef fish .Maui rates are even higher @ 41 times more than the west hawaii @ 5.7 times .If one excludes yellow tangs .. he states that yellow tangs are included in the Maui numbers .
To me it seems kinda harsh to take it out on the hobby industry as a whole . It is what it is but I cannot see the council taking it out on the commercial aquarium industry when the recreational reef catch appears to be the issue .
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SylvesterGraham
Non-member
This can't just be from tourists "stepping" on the coral... It's got to be a bunch of stuff, like bleaching/climate change, pollution, nitrification. Does hawaii have a reef re-building program in place?
As you can see, this is my first post. I had a saltwater a long time ago, when I was about 15, before I knew any better. Now I'm considering getting back in but won't consider anything except frags and aquacultured livestock this time. I'm even considering not bothering doing a saltwater, since the hobby may soon be dead. Sigh.
IMO, the best way to preserve the hobby and save reefs would be to transition to 98% aquaculture within five years, and have countries issue strictly controlled permits to only a very few collectors who would be allowed only to collect species that had the potential to be aquacultured--in any case most tank bred lines of freshwater fish need to have their genes "refreshed" with wild stock from time to time. And I do mean one permit for a few days of collecting issued to one or two credentialed aquaculture scientists per X square miles of reef.
Though, it all might be to late, if climate change really starts to pick up we can kiss the reefs goodbye, followed by our own lives...
