Major problems with overflow

[ryguy]

So I just filled my tank with water for the first time and my overflow is making all sorts of noises and bubbling. I ordered my overflow box from glass holes, and I had to siphon the water to get it to flow down my drain. Is that normal?

There are 3 things that may be causing the issue that I can think of.

1. The check valve I have right after the 90 that comes out of my tank.

2. The straw that sticks out of the 90 coming from the overflow box. I have it just poking through, is that how it's supposed to be?

3. the little cap that goes in the overflow box. Maybe it's not snapped in all the way, could that cause it?

 

[ryguy]

 

[Pat02026]

Is the check valve on your drain line? You should not have any restriction on your drain, unless it's is tuned with a gate/ball valve in which case there would be at least one other backup drain. A check valve on the drain is completely un-necessary and likely more of a tuning headache than useless.

Also if your running the check valve on your return to prevent sump backflow/overflow, your better off taking the time now to make sure you can have the system accommodate excess water with the return pump off without relying on a point of likely certain mechanical failure. Check valves don't seem to work right when you need them to on a reef tank.

 

[dilligaf29]

i just looked at that pic and it looks like there is water on the pipes and fitting is that leaking? like on the union looks like water dripping

 

[CAPSLOCK]

I don't understand how you needed to siphon the drain to start it. It should just drain as you fill the tank above the level of the overflow. The glass-holes overflow should function just like any other drilled overflow. Although it is noisy at first if you don't have a goodly amount of enkamat in the overflow (that just softens the sound of the water, it doesn't actually effect the drain). The glass-holes people will send you additional enkamat at no charge.

I believe you want the little straw to be poking up to just above the tank's water line. At least that's how I have mine.

Agree you don't want a check valve or any valve on a typical drain. Drain lines should be unrestricted. Unless you have a setup with an emergency drain.

The little cap - are you talking about the one inside the overflow or the overflow cover? The cover shouldn't effect the function, just noise and fish / snail safety. The one inside the box should be flush down against the little side walls in the middle of the overflow. It should be snug and flat in there.

FYI the glass-holes company provides excellent advice / support for their overflows.

Also your pic isn't working for me, maybe a visual would help.

 

[s_kelley]

Ditch the check valve. Never used a glass holes overflow, not sure about the straw thing. Your pic isn't showing for me

 

[letoan]

I assumed this is the overflow that you don't need to drill the tank, the U tube siphon to get water to the box in the back and drain...

What was the noise? Water splashing or water gurgles for air? Have you tried to slow down your return's output? Also try poke the straw stick thingy deeper to see if it helps.

 

[ryguy]

Thanks guys, after frantically reading and getting great responses, I will remove the check valve tomorrow and see how it goes. After considering, it seems silly that I put one on in the first place.

 

[s_kelley]

Good point, is this a drilled overflow or one of those hang on the back ones? A hang on one will need to be started/primed and usually require a small pump. Snap a pic of your overflow to clarify if u can

 

[cilyjr]

There is a pic 2nd post ya need to click to view.... It's drilled.
He likely need the siphon to start it moving to create enough pressure to open the installed check valve. Remove the check valve and you are likely fine ...
Those overflows are notorious for being noisy. I've heard of people using foam inserts ect to quiet them down but I have no experience with them other then helping install one many years ago.

The drips in the pic are another concern, however it could simply be left over from working in the tank trying to get it going.

 

[ryguy]

There is a pic 2nd post ya need to click to view.... It's drilled.
He likely need the siphon to start it moving to create enough pressure to open the installed check valve. Remove the check valve and you are likely fine ...
Those overflows are notorious for being noisy. I've heard of people using foam inserts ect to quiet them down but I have no experience with them other then helping install one many years ago.

The drips in the pic are another concern, however it could simply be left over from working in the tank trying to get it going.

Removing the check and messing with the ball valves on the return and drain solved the issue. I had to dial the drain way back. I don't know how good that is on the ball valves for the long term. I guess we will see.

The dripping was the top of the check and is all set now.

 

[Pat02026]

Forgive me as I have not been able to see the image, but if you only have 1 drain line going down to the sump, you should not have a valve of any sort on it. You do not want to restrict it at all. If a snail or any other object gets in there, you will pump your display full of water until it overflows if your matching drain to pump flow. The only drain that should be tuned by a valve should have at least a backup with enough capacity to handle full volume of said main drain.

 

[Sammynels]

I have a ball valve on my overflow and return. If you have a ball valve on your overflow, gate it back a little bit. Your trying to take more water than your pump is giving. Just keep your eye on it. You want the same coming in that are coming up from the return so keep your eye on the display tank and sump levels. You will eventually level them out so the amount going in matches the amount going out. Homeostasis baby...

 

[hvusalt]

for the noise, it happened to me once I set up my overflow box. it woke me up at the middle of night. I found down that the return pump overkilled my overflow box flow. I turned down my return pump a bit and the noise went away.

 

[JohnK]

Scary stuff being said here.

NEVER RESTRICT A DRAIN LINE UNLESS IT HAS A BACK UP DRAIN. Never use a restricting valve on the drain to balance it with the return unless there is a back up. Repeat, never, never, never !!!!

Doing ^ will work to make a drain system run smoothly, for a while, until the littlest obstruction interferes with the drain - and then you get an overflowing tank and soon after a burned out pump.

You can always restrict the return flow safely, but you can NEVER restrict the drain safely. "Bean animal" and "herbie" drains rely on a restricted siphon drain AND include emergency back up drains. If there is no emergency back up, then you cannot restrict the drain, it needs to be free flowing and if the return is too fast you need to slow it. Siphon drains run much higher flow rates in the same size pipe than non-siphon drains, but you cannot mix the different designs. Siphon style drains flow MUCH faster, but are inherently unstable and prone to obstruction, and THIS is why you cannot run one without a back up drain.

Sorry for YELLING, but it's very important to understand the differences in drain designs. For the set up in the pic of this tank, you need to get rid of the check valve and NOT use a ball valve on the drain at all. Get it working like that, then we can help you work on the noise factor.

 

[cilyjr]

^^^^^^ this. No restrictions on drain. Never.

 

[wpeterson]

Scary stuff being said here.

NEVER RESTRICT A DRAIN LINE UNLESS IT HAS A BACK UP DRAIN. Never use a restricting valve on the drain to balance it with the return unless there is a back up. Repeat, never, never, never !!!!

Doing ^ will work to make a drain system run smoothly, for a while, until the littlest obstruction interferes with the drain - and then you get an overflowing tank and soon after a burned out pump.

You can always restrict the return flow safely, but you can NEVER restrict the drain safely. "Bean animal" and "herbie" drains rely on a restricted siphon drain AND include emergency back up drains. If there is no emergency back up, then you cannot restrict the drain, it needs to be free flowing and if the return is too fast you need to slow it. Siphon drains run much higher flow rates in the same size pipe than non-siphon drains, but you cannot mix the different designs. Siphon style drains flow MUCH faster, but are inherently unstable and prone to obstruction, and THIS is why you cannot run one without a back up drain.

Sorry for YELLING, but it's very important to understand the differences in drain designs. For the set up in the pic of this tank, you need to get rid of the check valve and NOT use a ball valve on the drain at all. Get it working like that, then we can help you work on the noise factor.

+1 to everything here. I hope John's reputation and rational advice highlight the importance of getting the drain/return plumbing correct. If not, I'd underline it as well.

 

[ryguy]

Scary stuff being said here.

NEVER RESTRICT A DRAIN LINE UNLESS IT HAS A BACK UP DRAIN. Never use a restricting valve on the drain to balance it with the return unless there is a back up. Repeat, never, never, never !!!!

Doing ^ will work to make a drain system run smoothly, for a while, until the littlest obstruction interferes with the drain - and then you get an overflowing tank and soon after a burned out pump.

You can always restrict the return flow safely, but you can NEVER restrict the drain safely. "Bean animal" and "herbie" drains rely on a restricted siphon drain AND include emergency back up drains. If there is no emergency back up, then you cannot restrict the drain, it needs to be free flowing and if the return is too fast you need to slow it. Siphon drains run much higher flow rates in the same size pipe than non-siphon drains, but you cannot mix the different designs. Siphon style drains flow MUCH faster, but are inherently unstable and prone to obstruction, and THIS is why you cannot run one without a back up drain.

Sorry for YELLING, but it's very important to understand the differences in drain designs. For the set up in the pic of this tank, you need to get rid of the check valve and NOT use a ball valve on the drain at all. Get it working like that, then we can help you work on the noise factor.

After getting this advice many times and talking to the guys at glass holes, looks like I will be ripping out my drain lines and replacing to 1.5" all the way down. I guess reducing to 1" was the issue. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.