Newbie - Need assistance with high Nitrates plz

[splunker]

Ok, my name is Scott and I'm a new reefer. Man that was painful. So do I get a bumber sticker now? >:]

Short story - Have 3 cichlid tanks and decided to go salt on the 4th because I got a great deal for a complete salt setup. A friend turned me on to this forum. So here I am.

Tank - 120Gal w/oak stand and canopy, Oceanic Reef 30Gal sump with 2 Mag 5's for returns via 2 overflows, MTC protein skimmer fed by Mag 7, Red Sea Ocean Clear 325 canister filter on a separate Mag 5, Ebo-Jager LZ 25C 250W heater, 2 - MH lights 14K @ 175W and 10K @ 250W, 2 - Model 250mH ballist with built-in timers, 2 - Ice Cap fans in canopy, Pure-Flo II RO water filtration system, Pinpoint pH monitor and digital temp monitor. (Bought entire system for $400 with all live rock, sand, and plenty of chemical kits and supplies)

Background - Tank was moved 4 weeks ago to my home. Took all the water, rock, and sand by transporting into newly purchased barrels that were washed out. Tank was established for 5 years, had plenty of pods and some hermits, worms, etc. but no fish. Owner gave them away 2 weeks before I took the tank. I do not know when her last water change was. Given the fact she was paying for the tank cleaning service and sold the tank to downsize I'm assuming the service was stopped and so did the water changes. Side note, canister filter pump was dead (Quiet One) and replaced with Mag 5. The smell was horrible from the plumbing as it sat a while like this. However, the water did not make it into the tank and was not saved.

Problem - pH is 8.5, ammonia is <.25, nitrites are 0, salinity is dead on, temp is 78 degrees. Nitrates however are EXTREMELY high. I mean blood red results from 2 high end test kits from different brands. So high I had to perform the 1ml diluted with 5ml of distilled water and still I'm max'ing out the color chart. That puts me well over 200ppm nitrate level.

I have changed roughly 15Gal 3 times in the past week and have seen no difference. This weekend obtained some chaeto thx to a fellow reefer here and put in my sump with a light source. This will help but not drastically reduce the Nitrates. There is no algae in the tank and what has started growing is reddish in color, probably due to the Nitrates.

Being new to salt I have but one guess as to how this occurred. Lack of water changes and when I removed and added the sand back to the tank I released a lot of locked up Nitrate in the sand. There are no fish, no Nitrites, barely any ammonia so I can't think of anything generating this. I have placed a small number of soft corals purchased from a forum reefer in the tank and so far they have been fine with no ill effects. One clown fish I added last weekend however was not so lucky after the 4th day. Recently added some more rock and sand bought from a forum reefer couple to fill out the tank more.

My last ditch effort, unless I can be talked out of it and into something else, is to follow this article I found on the web that sounds drastic but effective. Right now with small water changes they are ineffective and I'm just wasting salt.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/nitratecontrol/l/aa091901.htm

Whew, that was a load of detail, thx for bothering. Any advice/similar experience would be greatly appreciated. I think if I just knock down the Nitrate level I should be fine. Not sure if I should prime the tank with any bacteria product but since this was a tank established for 5 years I didn't think I would need to and after a few weeks it would have settled.

Links to photos. My apologies for the adultfinder.com advertisement but you don't get to post pics for free many places with Hi-Rez pix and I didn't have the time tonight to downsize the images to post here in the forum. So this was the quickest free site I could find. Turn on your pop-up blocker too.

http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=64056_DSC_0342_122_185lo.JPG

 

[snowmaker]

My guess is you are correct in assuming the nitrates were locked up in the sand. I see no problem with the large water changes... other than that they are costly and a PITA.
I think that the denitrifying bacteria is going to take some time to build up enough and reach an equilibrium with with the waste it needs to consume, so I wouldn't be in a hurry. In fact, I would plan on maybe 1 or 2 large water changes and letting the tank be for a month or so, w/ out adding any livestock at all. Then check nitrates.
Just my humble opinion.

 

[jprince]

I think you are right on the money Joe. Stop doing small water changes. You are just wasting time and money. Let everything settle out and then do a few big water changes. You should be fine.


Jeff

 

[jackthestrat]

I think you need to bring your water to a third party for testing.

A pH stable at 8.5 is a weird reading to me, if you actually have over 200ppm nitrates.

 

[afboundguy]

You're prob having a recycle from the move. I agree with just letting it sit for a month and stow the water changes for now and see if it goes down on it's own. I'd also stow the canister filter as they are known to be nitrate factories...

 

[splunker]

Thx

Thank you to everyone for the recommendations. I'm pleased I wasn't out in left field here which gives me more confidence I can manage a salt tank. Fresh water is soooo much easier, and cheaper.

I have roughly 70Gal of RO water mixed with salt already as I was begining to stock up for the major water change. Can't leave it sit around in barrels for a month so I'll probably make one big water change and then let the tank sit.

Does it make any sense to use an additive to increase any bacteria levels as if this were a starter tank? Since I'm not feeding the tank I'm concerned about existing bacteria levels dying off without being fueled by ammonia or nitrites. I don't know if minimal ghost feeding the tank is plausible here to keep levels stable. But I don't want to throw gas on the fire. What I'd really like to do is stimulate some algae growth.

 

[wrassefan]

I agree it might be a mini cycle....I would do a 50% water change, get rid of the cannister unless you can get rid of the pleated filter, add a couple of cups of live sand from an established reef (someone near where you live) and maybe test the di water you are using for tds. I would also check the skimmer...from the pics, it doesn't look to be producing much bubbles

 

[frank180reef]

how do your corals look? if you nitrates are very hight i wouldnt think they would look healty....

 

[splunker]

More

I've tested the RO water I am doing the changes with and it is fine. Not sure if you saved the pic of the sump with protein skimmer and zoomed in or just going by the web photo but starting just above the two pvc tubes in the bottom the cylinder is totally filled with tiny bubbles to the upper section. I may have the water level set a little low in the cylinder so not as much is flowing out as should be. I'm a little paranoid about pumping my sump/tank dry because the protein skimmer water level was too high and creates a constant overflow into a 1Gal bucket. But you can't see thru the cylinder at all due to the bubbles above that very bottom section.

The canister filter was completely cleaned out and equiped with a brand new pleated filter before it was put back into service. I have a spare and it does make sense to swap them more frequently than needed if it begins acting as a sponge for Nitrates. I can begin swapping them back and forth after a bleach cleaning say every other week or so until my levels drop.

Frank - The corals are doing fine, including those that came with the Rock I got from Jess and Glen. The BTA's are in a smaller tank as I'm sure the Nitrates are too high for them. As soon as I realized the last water change didn't have any affect. So they were in there less than a day. In an article I read someone stated that soft corals would contribute to reducing Nitrates. Maybe that was only some type of corals, not sure as it wasn't specific. But all corals are opened when the lights are on and no discoloration or dead areas. Crustaceans seem to be immune, as with the pods, mini star fish, and two turbo snails.

 

[JayM]

The simple math is, if your nitrates are 100PPM, even a 50% water change is only going to drop your nitrates to 50PPM, which is still very high for a reef tank.

I would do a 50% water change, let it sit a day, and re-test.

Since your public profile says you are in Nashua, I would also run to one of our NH fish store sponsors, and ask them to verify your water test results.

I would absolutely dump the canister filter. The pleated filter is going to act as a nitrate factory. You could retask it as a carbon reactor, or fill it with LR rubble.

Once you do a 50% water change (and perhaps a second one), you should be able to get the parameters into better condition.

Lastly, please check the TDS of the water coming out of your filter. It would be a shame if the RO unit needed a filter change, and you were adding in exactly what you are trying to get rid of...

 

[splunker]

Water Tested

Earlier in this thread I stated the RO water was tested. I thought the same thing. But good point on the filter status. I do not know how old the PureFlo II setup is and how long the existing filters have been in use as they were used. I will probably replace them soon as a precaution even though the output water tests fine.

I'll have to look for local testing locations as suggested. I know the local PetCo uses strips and the Red Sea kit I'm using now is much better than that. The empolyee told me the store removed the kits from their budget because it cost them too much. Great customer service move.

 

[coralcor]

try jays in salem NH he is a sponsor. and its a great place!

 

[frank180reef]

wouldnt the corals look bad if the nitrates were 100ppm?

 

[JayM]

yes...they would be very stressed at that level

 

[splunker]

Update

I greatly appreciate all of you who have responded to my plea for help. As expected I've received differeing verbal and written info, some of which conflicts each other and some of the assumptions being both accurate and inaccurate based on the facts at hand. I've digested all of it and taken a course of action. For anyone interested in the results for future reference they are as follows.

This weekend I performed a massive water change to the tune of approximately 90Gal in my 120Gal tank w/30Gal sump. I don't know how many lbs of rock/sand I have but it's significant so it displaces a fair amount of volume in the tank.

Before the water exchange I tested the existing tank water with both Red Sea and Aquarium Pharmaceuticals salt kits. Both kits stated 8.4pH, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and max'd the color chart for nitrates. The Red Sea kit has a high scale chart to use if you max the low scale. Diluting distilled water with 1ml of tank water STILL max'd the color chart which goes to 250ppm. I am absolutely anal about cleaning the test tubes, measuring in the water with an eye dropper, and accuracy of adding in the chemicals. The results are conclusive.

All corals have been in the tank for over 3 weeks and are fine. No discoloration and fully extended. They are even expanding off the small frag rocks onto my larger rock. I've had Fishyfood from this forum and her husband come by to drop off some sand and they confirmed based solely on appearance that the corals seem to be unaffected with the extremely high nitrates. But before exchanging the water I removed the dozen soft corals I had in there.

I then drained the tank down to about 2" above the sand, drained the sump to about 4" deep, drained the canister filter. With the water level so low I took the opportunity to add another 2" of sand that Fishyfood and husband were nice enough to bring by. I now have 4" of sand in the tank. The tank was then refilled with the water I had staged. This water was tested before adding to the tank. The pH was 8.4, salinity at 1.025 using a hydrometer, ammonia/nitrite/nitrate at all 0's.

Immediately after adding the water and before I ran any pumps to circulate the water I took a nitrate reading of 10ppm from the tank, not the sump as I added the water directly to the tank. I turned on the 2 mag 5's in the sump that circulate the tank and the mag 7 that drives the skimmer. The canister was left off and the shut-off valves closed as the canister was empty and open.

After an hour I ran all tests again with pH 8.4, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, and nitrates went up to 40ppm. Fired up the canister after simply rinsing the filter as it had only been in there for a few weeks. Placed the corals and 2 BTA's back in the tank as the BTA's were not happy with the tiny 10Gal I had them in and the corals certainly didn't appreciate this either. They were fine before the water change so didn't think it would hurt to put them back under the MH lighting again to bring them back to life. This morning I ran all checks again with the exact same results.

Conclusion - Massive water change was successful however I'm not down below 5ppm which is where I believe I should be. Nitrate level although high is stable and the level is not increasing. Pods, hermits, tiny star fish, corals, and BTA's are all looking good. I can only imagine the actual ppm level of nitrates if I left so little water in the tank and after circulating for a day am still at 40ppm. So I got a great deal on the $$$ of the tank and equipment but inherited a serious issue.

I will be away for a long weekend coming up so will let the tank sit for a week. If the levels remain constant I see no other way to bring the tank down to 5ppm in a short period of time without another major water change. Even if I let this tank sit a month the little bit of chaeto in the sump will not consume all nitrates in that time and other than vegetation I know of nothing that will absorb them. If the levels increase that leaves only the rock and sand remaining as the culprits. Still think disturbing the sand during the move is what released all these nitrates anyway. If indeed the old sand was still leeching nitrates into the water I've sealed most of that up with the sand from Fishyfood that was from a healthy tank. Once the tank is balanced and well established I can slowly disturb small areas of the sand during cleanings to ensure that all nitrates are fully out of the system so that there is no relapse some day.

I'll provide another update in about a week.

Thx again to everyone who offered their advice.

 

[frank180reef]

thanks for the update! Keep us posted