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Pest protection and prevention
- Thread starter skatezen
- Start date
RichConley
Attack of the Killer Cute
I voted everyone.
I kinda feel this is almost like computer security, in that everyone else should be treating their computers and making sure their virus free, but you still have to do it yourself because you really can't trust anyone.
Its just too easy to treat incoming frags to not do it. That being said, stores should still be treating. Every place it gets stopped makes us safer.
I kinda feel this is almost like computer security, in that everyone else should be treating their computers and making sure their virus free, but you still have to do it yourself because you really can't trust anyone.
Its just too easy to treat incoming frags to not do it. That being said, stores should still be treating. Every place it gets stopped makes us safer.
NateHanson
Non-member
Ideally everyone down the line should do what they can to minimize exposure to pests (periodically draining holding systems, LFS dipping new arrivals, etc).
But the only stage at which pests can really be effectively stopped in a practical and reliable manner is by the end-consumer. Regardless of what lengths those upstream might be doing (or say their doing) to control the problem, I think a reefer would be foolish to not do their own complete dip or quarantine protocol with incoming corals. There's just no other way to be sure, and the one with the most at stake is you, so why not protect yourself.
I've got to vote "buyer" on this one.
Nate
But the only stage at which pests can really be effectively stopped in a practical and reliable manner is by the end-consumer. Regardless of what lengths those upstream might be doing (or say their doing) to control the problem, I think a reefer would be foolish to not do their own complete dip or quarantine protocol with incoming corals. There's just no other way to be sure, and the one with the most at stake is you, so why not protect yourself.
I've got to vote "buyer" on this one.
Nate
This is a complex question for many reasons. To some extend it depends a lot on the pest we are talking about, the corals we are talking about, and the tanks we are talking about.
Early in the set up of a tank I think it is of value to get a wide variety of organisms into a tank, biodiversity. This is to an extent what live rock and sand are all about. Later, when you are satisfied with your biodiversity, and are just accumulating specimens of this or that, you might not want anything else introduced WITH the specimens, but you might.
So...let's suppose this poll shows that everyone thinks it should be the upstream guys (wholesalers and retailers) job to 'clean the corals up'. What corals, and what pests? Where do you draw the line. Some might freak out about Aiptasia, some about Majanos.
Also, how would the shops and wholesalers clean the corals up? Let's suppose we were talking about the Acropora eating flatworms. If the shops and wholesalers dipped all the corals (Acropora only) for 6 hours in Levamisole, we would certainly have fewer problems, but I'd be willing to bet the stress of that bath soon after, or before shipping would mean a lot fewer corals survived shipment. The corals also often loose color after a dip. Shipping does all kinds of weird things, sometimes making corals look brighter because they have lost their zoxanthellae. The chemical dip would likely kill everything other than the coral, that means no hitchhikers that might be cool...Acropora symbiotic crabs would all be toast. Because there is the risk that other corals might have a stray flatworm on them, should ALL corals (even corals of other Genera) be dipped? More losses, and more losses of cool hitchhikers you might want.
The risk of introduction of a parasite into a tank will vary a lot depending upon what type of tank it's going into as well. If it's my first Acropora, it's not the end of the world if it comes in with a parasite, the parasite consumes the coral, the coral dies, and then the parasite dies for lack of a host. If however, I were to get a similar parasite into my 400 Gallon tank with dozens of species/color morphs of Acro I'd be bumming.
I think it makes sense for everyone to be a bit vigil. The wholesalers should try and make sure that the parasites don't become entrenched in their holding systems (maybe have some natural predators in there) and end up infecting every coral that come though. The shops should also watch carefully, and do what they can to control the parasites in their systems, and possibly also educate the hobbyists. Hobbyists will have to be the last line of defense. They need to make decisions based upon their vunerability and risk of introduction of various parasites. Hobbyists will ned to treat, and/or quarantine corals they obtain.
Early in the set up of a tank I think it is of value to get a wide variety of organisms into a tank, biodiversity. This is to an extent what live rock and sand are all about. Later, when you are satisfied with your biodiversity, and are just accumulating specimens of this or that, you might not want anything else introduced WITH the specimens, but you might.
So...let's suppose this poll shows that everyone thinks it should be the upstream guys (wholesalers and retailers) job to 'clean the corals up'. What corals, and what pests? Where do you draw the line. Some might freak out about Aiptasia, some about Majanos.
Also, how would the shops and wholesalers clean the corals up? Let's suppose we were talking about the Acropora eating flatworms. If the shops and wholesalers dipped all the corals (Acropora only) for 6 hours in Levamisole, we would certainly have fewer problems, but I'd be willing to bet the stress of that bath soon after, or before shipping would mean a lot fewer corals survived shipment. The corals also often loose color after a dip. Shipping does all kinds of weird things, sometimes making corals look brighter because they have lost their zoxanthellae. The chemical dip would likely kill everything other than the coral, that means no hitchhikers that might be cool...Acropora symbiotic crabs would all be toast. Because there is the risk that other corals might have a stray flatworm on them, should ALL corals (even corals of other Genera) be dipped? More losses, and more losses of cool hitchhikers you might want.
The risk of introduction of a parasite into a tank will vary a lot depending upon what type of tank it's going into as well. If it's my first Acropora, it's not the end of the world if it comes in with a parasite, the parasite consumes the coral, the coral dies, and then the parasite dies for lack of a host. If however, I were to get a similar parasite into my 400 Gallon tank with dozens of species/color morphs of Acro I'd be bumming.
I think it makes sense for everyone to be a bit vigil. The wholesalers should try and make sure that the parasites don't become entrenched in their holding systems (maybe have some natural predators in there) and end up infecting every coral that come though. The shops should also watch carefully, and do what they can to control the parasites in their systems, and possibly also educate the hobbyists. Hobbyists will have to be the last line of defense. They need to make decisions based upon their vunerability and risk of introduction of various parasites. Hobbyists will ned to treat, and/or quarantine corals they obtain.
OP
OP
skatezen
If you pick it, Flick it!
Greg you brought up just about every scenario I was thinking to myself when I posted the poll. It's a touchy subject, but I think that it should be just as you stated "The wholesaler should try and make sure that the parasites don't become entrenched in their holding systems (maybe have some natural predators in there) and end up infecting every coral that come though. The shops should also watch carefully, and do what they can to control the parasites in their systems, and possibly also educate the hobbyists."
I think that the local shops should definitely educate the buyer more, just so that the buyer is aware of what is out there. I also think that they should put more emphasis educating the buyer on proper quarantine procedures. I don't think enough people properly quarantine, it is something I myself am going to be drastically improving on and will be incorporating into my new fish room plans. Twice now I've been burned by LFSs, but its my own fault really for not quarantining, but also not knowing what to look for. It has just come up in the club down here that some corals coming from a popular online local vendor (recently) do have AEFW's.
I think that the local shops should definitely educate the buyer more, just so that the buyer is aware of what is out there. I also think that they should put more emphasis educating the buyer on proper quarantine procedures. I don't think enough people properly quarantine, it is something I myself am going to be drastically improving on and will be incorporating into my new fish room plans. Twice now I've been burned by LFSs, but its my own fault really for not quarantining, but also not knowing what to look for. It has just come up in the club down here that some corals coming from a popular online local vendor (recently) do have AEFW's.
Scuba_Dave
Non-member
If you think a wholesaler or LFS will you are dreaming, no offense to our established LFS. The amount of time it takes to identify & look for them would be very expensive.
BUYER BEWARE!!! Anyone ever heard of that?
For me it's me as a buyer, and as a seller
I freshwater dip everything I sell or trade or buy
But I haven't dipped macro at times - trying to get my pod population going
I don't think a wholesaler will do it
I've seen apatasia growing in most LFS tanks
How do you protect against an unknown pest?
What about eggs - very hard to see
LR - ???
BUYER BEWARE!!! Anyone ever heard of that?
For me it's me as a buyer, and as a seller
I freshwater dip everything I sell or trade or buy
But I haven't dipped macro at times - trying to get my pod population going
I don't think a wholesaler will do it
I've seen apatasia growing in most LFS tanks
How do you protect against an unknown pest?
What about eggs - very hard to see
LR - ???
