Thinking about adding a mandarin

[Owen386]

Hey fellow reefers,


Tanks been up and cycled for about 3-4 months now 2 clowns been in there for almost that long a long with a good size diverse CUC with a dozen and a half so sps corals. My question is how do I know if a have a size bale enough coped population to sustain a mandarin? If I am not able to get one eaten frozen food yet. I added a bottle of pods I purchased at tropic isle about two months ago dumped them into my HOB refugium. Now when I look at the rocks even during the day time they are crawling with pods I mean crawing prob 20+ sq inch. Now I'm sure these fish can rip through hundreds of these in a day. So any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated thanks !

-Owen

 

[stingythingy45]

What size tank and refugium?
I have a 90 gallon with a 70 gallon basement sump and a 20L refugium that's been set up for almost 3 years.
It's crawling with amphipods but not many isopods that I can see.
And I've just recently thought of purchasing one.Trouble is they seem to sell out pretty fast at my lfs.

 

[tommy6905]

stingy i dont know if you go to skiptons, but they seem to always have them in stock

 

[Owen386]

Tanks 50 gal refugium HOB aquaaclear 120 filter diy to refugium, will be adding my 20 gal sump within next cpl of weeks so for now I would say the refugium is less than 1gal but yeah I see them clearly, creepy almost looks like the live rock is actually alive as the surface of it is always moving, and at night there's way more visible. As I said got mine at tropic isle cost me like 25 bucks but hopefully was worth it.

 

[AV8er]

If you are seeing a sizable pod population after two months, that's good news (because they are probably not the ones you put in the tank). You can talk to B at Skiptons more about this if you want, but the bottled pods they sell (and I believe B told me that all pre-packaged bottled pods that he has looked into getting at the store) are a sub-tropical variety that only survive short term in the tropical temperatures of most of our tanks. So they are a perfectly good short term solution, but these pods don't establish long-term populations. But after two months, you can be pretty sure you have the "good ones."

Just keep in mind that mandarins can decimate a good pod population, even in a 50 gallon, so I would look into buying or building a bigger HOB refugium (or creating an area where the pods are free from predation). And if you want to recharge your pod population, often times if you call ahead and they have time, Skiptons will custom-make a bottle of pods by picking them from their own tanks.

 

[stevenp]

I watched a mandarin slowly starve to death over the course of 6 months in a well established 110g aquarium. Wasn't pretty. I decided never again would I try another Mandarin unless it was already eating prepared foods.

Those bottled pods just never seemed like they'd do much good IMO. They're soooo small that I never imagined an entire bottle would amount to even one single meal for a fat mandarin. If you're buying actual reef pods out of Skipton's tanks then that's probably a different story though.

 

[JayM]

buy a tank raised one....that's how to be sure/

 

[Spaceman]

ora with no competition in the bottom they are easy and awesome! i have one with my auto feeder filled with pellets ready for him to eat every day at 5 lol they are awesome he eats flake to.. tigger pods do not live in a reef tank its to warm....i would rather dump a bottle of flat worms to feed the mandarin then tiggger pods. my buddy would love some flat worms i bet here and there ... but spectrum pellet is his fav right now or ora glow but he hates the small pieces i have noticed......

 

[Andy V]

ora with no competition in the bottom they are easy and awesome! i have one with my auto feeder filled with pellets ready for him to eat every day at 5 lol they are awesome he eats flake to.. tigger pods do not live in a reef tank its to warm....i would rather dump a bottle of flat worms to feed the mandarin then tiggger pods. my buddy would love some flat worms i bet here and there ... but spectrum pellet is his fav right now or ora glow but he hates the small pieces i have noticed......

No competition is key. Even the ones eating frozen will die in a short amount of time when other more aggressive eaters (meaning exactly that...aggressive eaters, not aggressive fish, e.g. "peaceful" wrasses) are in the tank. Most of these will not survive even in well established 200g+ tanks. It bothers me when I see so many for sale knowing the vast majority will die.

 

[Owen386]

So I won't be able to keep a mandarin nor should I try ?

 

[lilrodyreefer]

I've had a scooter bliny which is in the same family with similar eating habits. I had him in a 30g for about a year and a half and now he lives in my 75g. He is fat and happy. I would recommend a bigger fuge with tons of cheato and rubble. I would go with the Ora mandarin. They are more likely to survive. Good luck with what ever you decide to do.

 

[Andy V]

Like I said, if you have a bunch of passive eaters like firefish, yashia goby, hi-fin goby, etc. if you get one that is eating frozen food it could be fine. You also need the pod population, which in a tank as new as yours is unlikely to be sufficient. You have clowns, which are fairly aggressive eaters. I have tried mandarins twice and scooter blennies twice (all at different times) in a 50g tank that had been established for three years. One mandarin died. One scooter died. The other two were starving to death so I took them out and gave them to someone with a 300g five year old reef. All of them were eating frozen at home and in the pet store. There are a few success stories, but those are the exception.

 

[livewire]

Perhaps I am an exception. In my tank I have a spotted madarin, red mandarin, and a scooter blenny. I watch my tank like a hawk to make sure all my critters are happy and chubby!! All my fish have eating disorders lol. I must disclose that I feed the tank heavily. daily dosing of phyto at close to triple dosage. 3-5 hatches of baby brine shrimp per week. cubes of spirulina brine and cubes of mysis. beforehand I spot feed the more aggresive eaters with formula 1 pellets perhaps some prime reef flakes. all flow is killed during the feeding. I feel overfeeding is the key. A fat fish is a happy fish...

 

[Andy V]

Perhaps I am an exception. In my tank I have a spotted madarin, red mandarin, and a scooter blenny. I watch my tank like a hawk to make sure all my critters are happy and chubby!! All my fish have eating disorders lol. I must disclose that I feed the tank heavily. daily dosing of phyto at close to triple dosage. 3-5 hatches of baby brine shrimp per week. cubes of spirulina brine and cubes of mysis. beforehand I spot feed the more aggresive eaters with formula 1 pellets perhaps some prime reef flakes. all flow is killed during the feeding. I feel overfeeding is the key. A fat fish is a happy fish...

For someone newer to the hobby (as the original poster seems to be), doing the regimen you do is going to cause so many problems it's unreal. The OP's tank has SPS, which aren't going to thrive in a nutrient rich system. Phosphate and algae will become a huge issue unless he is running tons of GFO or doing 50-75% (or more) water changes weekly. The OP seems to be new to the hobby. It's irresponsible for others to encourage someone new to the hobby to buy a fish that requires expert care. Believe me, I am not a member of Greenpeace, but I also don't think we should just throw around living things like trash because we think they are cute.

Nobody would EVER just tell someone to go ahead and get a dog if it's chances of living were 50/50 or worse.

And I am not directing this to you specifically, it's just a general statement about this hobby.

 

[stingythingy45]

Just curious,why dose phyto?

 

[livewire]

Just curious,why dose phyto?

Dose feed call it what you will.

 

[livewire]

For someone newer to the hobby (as the original poster seems to be), doing the regimen you do is going to cause so many problems it's unreal. The OP's tank has SPS, which aren't going to thrive in a nutrient rich system. Phosphate and algae will become a huge issue unless he is running tons of GFO or doing 50-75% (or more) water changes weekly. The OP seems to be new to the hobby. It's irresponsible for others to encourage someone new to the hobby to buy a fish that requires expert care. Believe me, I am not a member of Greenpeace, but I also don't think we should just throw around living things like trash because we think they are cute.

Nobody would EVER just tell someone to go ahead and get a dog if it's chances of living were 50/50 or worse.

And I am not directing this to you specifically, it's just a general statement about this hobby.

Just a few disagreements with your statement.
1) I do not run GFO or carbon, no isssue with Phosphate
2) Don't do 50-75% weekly water changes either
3)If someone wanted a dog I would tell them to get one. If you want something bad enough you will do what it takes to ensure its survival.
4)The irressponsibilty falls on the buyer. If you buy a fish with out doing your homework than shame on you. This hobby is not for everyone.

 

[Andy V]

Just a few disagreements with your statement.
1) I do not run GFO or carbon, no isssue with Phosphate
2) Don't do 50-75% weekly water changes either
3)If someone wanted a dog I would tell them to get one. If you want something bad enough you will do what it takes to ensure its survival.
4)The irressponsibilty falls on the buyer. If you buy a fish with out doing your homework than shame on you. This hobby is not for everyone.

Well what ARE you doing for husbandry? Because most people in this hobby that feed 1/2 a cube a day and nothing else have issues with phosphate eventually. And that is despite rinsing food and using RO/DI. It sounds like you are leaving a lot out.

And I would agree with your point #4, except that people come here looking for ADVICE, i.e. they are trying to determine whether or not they should buy something based on the current body of knowledge in the hobby. They are trying to be responsible, or as you say, doing their homework. But that's kind of hard when more "experienced" reef-keepers just give them blanket advice that is not even close to complete. It's like saying, hey I can keep an NPS tank no problem, go for it! Then you leave out the absurd requirements of such a demanding system.

Honestly, most of the best people have left this forum or hardly contribute anymore (Rob, Calciumbuf, Aquaman, Greg Hiller, the list goes on) because everyone acts like an authority when most people here have no clue and just toss out the latest meme in the hobby. Ever notice how most of the people with the best knowledge never comment anymore? They just use the forums to sell stuff. That's because people that have been in the hobby for two months are arguing with reef keepers of 20 years. In fact, almost all of the most beautiful tanks I have seen in the area are not members here at all because of this.

 

[stingythingy45]

Anybody that's been on reef forums for a while can tell you many,many horror stories about mandarins and sand sifting gobies starving.
And no,I would not tell somebody to get a dog if they want one.

 

[Andy V]

Anybody that's been on reef forums for a while can tell you many,many horror stories about mandarins and sand sifting gobies starving.
And no,I would not tell somebody to get a dog if they want one.

I hear you. Look at all the dogs available for rescue online. You will see far and away the ones most available are chihuahuas. Why? Because a couple of stupid movies about chihuahuas (Finding Nemo anyone?) got every bimbo and Snooki wannabe on earth buying them. And then they dumped them off on someone else once they realized the work that went into it. But hey, it's cute and most of the time they live! So go ahead and get one!