wicked LOUD!!!! return noise! water slap galore!

[new2saltyfish]

I have a 40B, 29g sump, Aquacon 3000 return (630gph flow) and have NO idea why my tank is so LOUD! Can anyone help a me out? Here are a few pics of how the plumbing is set up.

SLAP seems to come from the tank into the overflow box as well as down the overflow tubes and hitting the water. It's in my bedroom so it's RIDICULOUS! i have to shut the return off just so i can go to sleep.

 

[JohnK]

This might sound like a stupid question, but can you describe the noise in more detail? Gurgling, sucking, splashing, flushing, constant, intermittent, pattern.....

Also, I can't tell from the pics how the bottoms of the drains are arranged? Are they submerged? Any air vents or reverse durosos?

 

[new2saltyfish]

Slapping, slight flushing (but i drilled the hole on the durso bigger and it's still there), CONSTANT. Very top pic you can see the two middle bulkheads go into two T fittings and down to the sump (assuming the T fittings is the durso part cause that's what i found when i looked them up when i built the tank not too long ago). Middle pic shows the closed loop as well so it's hard to tell but the two right side pipes that go into the sump on the right side are the overflow pipes. I trimmed the part that was submerged in a water a bit and the noise is still there.

 

[new2saltyfish]

bump

 

[JohnK]

It's hard to tell without being there in person. A couple of things to tinker with do come to mind though;

-the drain pipes look like they go straight down. What happens if you turn them so that there is a slight angle?
-what happens to the water level inside the overflow box when you hear the flushing? Does it go up and down, and if so how high and how low?
-Flushing can be really weird to deal with, sometimes it's because the hole is too small, sometimes because it's too big. Try dropping some small zip ties into the vent holes to restrict the air flow and see what happens?
-Is it possible to shut the closed loop off to rule that out?
-Have you tried shutting the oceans motions off to see if they have anything to do with the nosie?
-If the first two don't change anything adding reverse duroso's to the bottoms of the drain pipes might help.

 

[delta]

Those are not durso's With a Durso use a large pipe into a reducer so you can control the siphon of the water in the stand pipe. The pipe after the reduce can be larger (preferably). They are also completely vertical which will make any flushing as bad as it can be. That is not a lot of flow for 2- 1" drains so you should not be having too much trouble.

Is the water falling more than 1" in the over flow?

The holes in the top of the stand pipes are consistent with the amount of water going through them. That is why you start @ 1/16" and slowly go up, every setup is different.

Over all the durso is not the best for a linear overflow

Herbie drain might be the best in this situation

 

[new2saltyfish]

It's hard to tell without being there in person. A couple of things to tinker with do come to mind though;

-the drain pipes look like they go straight down. What happens if you turn them so that there is a slight angle?
-what happens to the water level inside the overflow box when you hear the flushing? Does it go up and down, and if so how high and how low?
-Flushing can be really weird to deal with, sometimes it's because the hole is too small, sometimes because it's too big. Try dropping some small zip ties into the vent holes to restrict the air flow and see what happens?
-Is it possible to shut the closed loop off to rule that out?
-Have you tried shutting the oceans motions off to see if they have anything to do with the nosie?
-If the first two don't change anything adding reverse duroso's to the bottoms of the drain pipes might help.

Yes i know i'll try and take a video and see if that helps a bit.
-They do go straight down, good idea! I will try that.
-It seems to stay the same BUT i do know if i hold my finger over the hole it def. lowers the water level in the overflow.
-i'll try the zip tie thing and see what happens.
-Closed loop is never one...closed loop is even LOUDER then the overflow water noise! I only turn on the close loop once a day for a few minutes to make sure the water inside the pipes does not go fallow.
-Yea the closed loop isn't really ever on so i know it's not that.
-I'll have to look up reverse durso's and see if that helps.

THANKS!

 

[new2saltyfish]

Those are not durso's With a Durso use a large pipe into a reducer so you can control the siphon of the water in the stand pipe. The pipe after the reduce can be larger (preferably). They are also completely vertical which will make any flushing as bad as it can be. That is not a lot of flow for 2- 1" drains so you should not be having too much trouble.

Is the water falling more than 1" in the over flow?

The holes in the top of the stand pipes are consistent with the amount of water going through them. That is why you start @ 1/16" and slowly go up, every setup is different.

Over all the durso is not the best for a linear overflow

Herbie drain might be the best in this situation

Hmm maybe i'll cut the pipe, put in a reducer, and then put it back to 1 inch and see if that helps to. You mean is it falling more then 1 foot from the 90 degree turn underneath the tank and back into the sump?!? It possibly may, i'll have to measure it tomorrow. I'll have to look up the herbie drain as well.

 

[mchartier]

A herbie drain is a 2 hole drain system. Your main drain is restricted with a valve (preferably a gate valve). The second is an emergency drain if the other clogs. John K demonstrated this once at the CRA meeting a year or 2 ago. Found the thread http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?97781-quot-Herbie-quot-drains-WOW&highlight=herbie

I run this type of drain on my 57 rimless and it is dead silent.

 

[Dangger]

beside your loud sound, may I add that your electrical situation above the sump is also wicked unsafe.

 

[new2saltyfish]

A herbie drain is a 2 hole drain system. Your main drain is restricted with a valve (preferably a gate valve). The second is an emergency drain if the other clogs. John K demonstrated this once at the CRA meeting a year or 2 ago. Found the thread http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?97781-quot-Herbie-quot-drains-WOW&highlight=herbie

I run this type of drain on my 57 rimless and it is dead silent.

Thanks a lot! I'm going to read that and replace what i have with that.

 

[new2saltyfish]

beside your loud sound, may I add that your electrical situation above the sump is also wicked unsafe.

They're ziptied above so they don't fall in...PLUS i have a grounding prob in the sump so if they were to fall everything would shut off

 

[JohnK]

Thanks a lot! I'm going to read that and replace what i have with that.

One note of caution on the herbie, though it works great they tend to fluxuate a little so it may be very tricky to keep it running correctly with the two holes so close to the surface because there would be very little room for the water level to go up and down in the overflow box. Don't get me wrong, I love my herbie drain, I just worry that it would need adjusting annoyingly often in your set up.

 

[new2saltyfish]

so do you think i should just try a durso style for mine instead?

 

[JohnK]

I would call what you already have an "external duroso". (greg might see it differently though, not sure??). I've run drains just like that and had them work just fine assuming fairly modest flow. About how many GPH are your running through this?

I'm still kind of unclear about what's happinging with your set up. Your description sounds like there is something more than the usual duroso noise. Any chance of a you-tube video with sound? I can't figure out the "slap" as you describe the noise. Typical duroso noise is a little gurgle and a slight whistle. A typical poorly tuned duroso is like a toilet flushing over and over with a sucking sound at the end of each flushing cycle.

 

[JohnK]

BTW, did you have a chance to try putting a slight angle on those drain pipes? All I can picture as "slapping" might be turbulance in the pipes, if that is the case then putting a slight angle on the drains will make the water run along one side of the pipe and will cut the turbulance way down.

****just be careful when manipulating those pipes, they will have a lot of leverage against the glass, and the glass on 40Bs is pretty thin. Maybe loosen the bulkheads to adjust the angle, that way you wouldn't be putting any force on the bulkheads as you go to adjust the pipe...

 

[new2saltyfish]

well the pump is 630gph and im guessing you divide that by the two one inch pipes. I'll try to take a video....the water going from the tank into the overflow itself is making a BUNCH of noise itself which is weird cause it's only a 1-2 inch drop. There is a slight gurgle from the durso's. (that may be it too...i'll have to take a video and post it up( about an hour and a half i'll be home and will do so)). I did put a slight angle in them and while it did improve it, it was a slight improvement.

 

[delta]

the gurgling is probably the holes being too big. if the durso is working right the water level should be in the middle of the pipe of the bulkhead.

do you have teeth on your overflow or is it just flat? I am wondering if it is flat and maybe the water from the side is making noise hit the water coming over the front?

 

[new2saltyfish]

it was that way...but when i went from a mag 3 to the new aqueon 3000 it changed and went higher (noise got louder as well). yes i have teeth. SOME water does go over the top though...possibly the space between the teeth isn't big enough?!?

 

[new2saltyfish]

Here's a video! LMK if it's sufficient. sorry bad camera phone quality.
View My Video