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MrX's 120G Build
- Thread starter MrX
- Start date
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MrX
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Typhoon III Extreme RO/DI came in today so I went to the LHS and asked for some advice on how best to connect it to my existing water line (you can see it capped off in an earlier picture). I ended up going with some "Shark Bite" connectors: a valve, a 90-degree elbow, and a 1/2" to 1/4" adapter. Here's what I did to swap in the new pieces:
1. Cut off the water supply
2. Ran the water on two sinks until the pipes "emptied"
3. Hacksawed the existing pipe about 2/3rds of the way up
4. Got very wet as the "empty" line sprayed like a fire nozzle all over the place
5. Pushed on the "Shark Bite" valve (stopped the rest of the dripping)
6. Cut the cap off the pipe, cleaned up both ends
7. Connected the pipe to the 90-degree elbow
8. Slapped some teflon tape on the plastic adapter, screwed that in
9. Connected this assembly into the other side of the valve
I then cut some of my leftover 3/4" plywood and mounted it on the wall just above the concrete and under the sewer pipe. Marked the holes for the RO/DI unit, drilled pilot holes, and found some suitably sized screws to hold it up. The extra space to the left will be for plumbing support and/or mounting some electrical outlets.
Only bummer today was the point the LHS guy mentioned about my plans to run the "bad water" into the sewer line right there. He stated it probably wasn't a good idea to run the output line into that tube directly... bad bacteria might make its way back into the RO/DI. Hadn't thought of that. Now I've got to figure out some other way to get rid of the bad water. I'll probably just run a line around the wall to where the whole-house AC condensation goes outside, piggyback off that hole in the wall.
1. Cut off the water supply
2. Ran the water on two sinks until the pipes "emptied"
3. Hacksawed the existing pipe about 2/3rds of the way up
4. Got very wet as the "empty" line sprayed like a fire nozzle all over the place
5. Pushed on the "Shark Bite" valve (stopped the rest of the dripping)
6. Cut the cap off the pipe, cleaned up both ends
7. Connected the pipe to the 90-degree elbow
8. Slapped some teflon tape on the plastic adapter, screwed that in
9. Connected this assembly into the other side of the valve
I then cut some of my leftover 3/4" plywood and mounted it on the wall just above the concrete and under the sewer pipe. Marked the holes for the RO/DI unit, drilled pilot holes, and found some suitably sized screws to hold it up. The extra space to the left will be for plumbing support and/or mounting some electrical outlets.
Only bummer today was the point the LHS guy mentioned about my plans to run the "bad water" into the sewer line right there. He stated it probably wasn't a good idea to run the output line into that tube directly... bad bacteria might make its way back into the RO/DI. Hadn't thought of that. Now I've got to figure out some other way to get rid of the bad water. I'll probably just run a line around the wall to where the whole-house AC condensation goes outside, piggyback off that hole in the wall.
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MrX
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Today I got my RO/DI unit all plumbed. I ended up drilling a hole up into the wall between the bathroom and laundry room. Then I used a saddle valve (came with the Typhoon III) and hooked the RODI drain into the sink drain. All-in-all it appears to be working pretty well. I ran the RODI for about an hour to flush it. While I was doing that I cut the tops off my water drums, installed the float valve in one, and rinsed them out in the driveway.
Tonights mission, if I choose to accept it (and I will!!), is to figure out the layout and plumbing in the basement. Should I put the stock tank on a small platform, 4-5" off the floor, or put it on top of my stand with the 40B underneath? How should I plumb the two drains and the one return? How best to incorporate the 40B into the system as a frag tank/refugium? Inquiring minds want to know!
Suggestions appreciated!
Tonights mission, if I choose to accept it (and I will!!), is to figure out the layout and plumbing in the basement. Should I put the stock tank on a small platform, 4-5" off the floor, or put it on top of my stand with the 40B underneath? How should I plumb the two drains and the one return? How best to incorporate the 40B into the system as a frag tank/refugium? Inquiring minds want to know!
Suggestions appreciated!
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MrX
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I debated that last night. The holes that came in the top were way to small to do anything with (3-4" max). I figured I'll cut the tops off and find something to use for a cover later. For now I just have a board over them (only one being used ATM).
Worst case I go buy a couple more barrels down the road. I like the red ones with the screw on tops!
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MrX
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Tonight I spent figuring out the placement of my stock tank/sump and stand/frag tank. I think I'm going to put them both perpendicular to the wall. This way I can position the return pump in line with the stock tank drain (drilled it and installed a 1.5" bulk head). This also gives me plenty of room to change the RO/DI filters, get between the tanks, etc. etc.
After I did that I started rough-cutting pipes and dry-fitting the drains and returns. I realized I have lots of parts I don't need and that I'm missing a bunch of things I do need. Where is a 24-hour hardware store when you want one?!? I just spent 20 minutes sorting through all my receipts and the spare parts so I can go to the LHSes and return all this stuff; poor cashier is gonna hate me!
Here is the start of my drain plumbing. Gave me enough to visualize what else I need and where things will go. There will be a T- off one of the lines and an adapter so I can connect a hose and drain water right out the window/sliding door.
Return plumbing (minus the check-valve, keep reading!) ... going to have two union ball values so I can direct/regulate flow either back to the display tank or the sump.
Not really sure what to do for a check valve. You can see the two I found below. The black one was from Home Depot where the sump pumps are, looks like a flapper inside; if I want to use this I'm not sure what to do. I could use the rubber fittings and clamps and go over the 1.5" pipe; but if I try and remove the rubber fittings it is a tad too small to fit into standard PVC.
The bigger white one is from Lowes. It has a spring in it I think. It's big and bulky and doesn't inspire confidence.
Any suggestions???
The RO/DI is still chugging along. No leaks so far. It's no where near 150GPD though. Any clue how to make it go faster? After two days I've got about 90g of water ready between one full blue tank and the 40B.
Another RO/DI question for you all... my TDS meter on the unit shows INPUT TDS = 4 and OUTPUT TDS = 0. Would it be a "bad thing" to use water direct from my tap with a TDS of 4? The hand-held TDS meter was showing 70-77 when I did a quick test in the kitchen the other night. Thoughts?
My plan tomorrow is to:
- resolve the check-valve issue
- finish up the plumbing
- start getting some water into the sump to push up to the display tank (after a suitable drying period for all the connections of course!)
After I did that I started rough-cutting pipes and dry-fitting the drains and returns. I realized I have lots of parts I don't need and that I'm missing a bunch of things I do need. Where is a 24-hour hardware store when you want one?!? I just spent 20 minutes sorting through all my receipts and the spare parts so I can go to the LHSes and return all this stuff; poor cashier is gonna hate me!
Here is the start of my drain plumbing. Gave me enough to visualize what else I need and where things will go. There will be a T- off one of the lines and an adapter so I can connect a hose and drain water right out the window/sliding door.
Return plumbing (minus the check-valve, keep reading!) ... going to have two union ball values so I can direct/regulate flow either back to the display tank or the sump.
Not really sure what to do for a check valve. You can see the two I found below. The black one was from Home Depot where the sump pumps are, looks like a flapper inside; if I want to use this I'm not sure what to do. I could use the rubber fittings and clamps and go over the 1.5" pipe; but if I try and remove the rubber fittings it is a tad too small to fit into standard PVC.
The bigger white one is from Lowes. It has a spring in it I think. It's big and bulky and doesn't inspire confidence.
Any suggestions???
The RO/DI is still chugging along. No leaks so far. It's no where near 150GPD though. Any clue how to make it go faster? After two days I've got about 90g of water ready between one full blue tank and the 40B.
Another RO/DI question for you all... my TDS meter on the unit shows INPUT TDS = 4 and OUTPUT TDS = 0. Would it be a "bad thing" to use water direct from my tap with a TDS of 4? The hand-held TDS meter was showing 70-77 when I did a quick test in the kitchen the other night. Thoughts?
My plan tomorrow is to:
- resolve the check-valve issue
- finish up the plumbing
- start getting some water into the sump to push up to the display tank (after a suitable drying period for all the connections of course!)
Can't tell from the picture, but it your stock tank sitting directly on the concrete? If so, it is better to place it on a raised platform. Mine is on a piece of floor panel raised on cinder blocks. THis allows the return pump to be lower than the tank. Being the lowest point in the system ensures the pump will always prime after a power outage. Also it provides some insulation from the cold floor and stops the floor acting as a heat sink for your water, decreasing your heating power usage.
delta
Impatient Reefer
For the check valves it is best to use the once you can see through and are true union so you can easily change them out. they wear out quicker than you would think
I use these ones http://www.aquacave.com/Swing-Check-Valves-True-Union-Clear-PVC-Socket-connection-P435.aspx
If you can get a hold of 44gal brute trash can lids (food grade) they work perfect for your water storage covers.
I use these ones http://www.aquacave.com/Swing-Check-Valves-True-Union-Clear-PVC-Socket-connection-P435.aspx
If you can get a hold of 44gal brute trash can lids (food grade) they work perfect for your water storage covers.
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MrX
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The stock tank is actually about 4-5" off the floor on leftover 4x4s and the cabinet grade ply. I'm thinking of raising it up some more however to address the prime issue you mentioned.
I figured it was pressure and/or cold. The pressure is at 50psi if I remember (will double check when I head out), but the water temp is pretty low. I was reading the FAQ on their site last night and saw the hot water trick... maybe I'll try that with another bucket and one of my heaters when they come in later today.
I'll be looking for a local Grainger today, if that falls through I'll hit up AquaCave. Great tip about the Brute 44g covers. Thanks!
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To your question of the tap water. I wouldn't use the tap water at 70 TDS. The 4 TDS reading you're getting is probably after it has ran through the filters but before the DI filter.....the DI filter brings it to 0. I can see for sure the plumbing on your RODI but thats how mine is set up.
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MrX
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Grainger in Worcester didn't have a check valve in stock. Going to try calling Framingham tomorrow or a couple LFSes. If I can't find one I might leave a space for it using some unions. Otherwise I might just skip it... I think I have it covered by ball valves and the fact that it's only a 3/4" return pipe. Not a lot of water in there. Heading back downstairs to finish up after having to run to HD yet again... and of course, they didn't have the 1.5" slip union, just threaded ones. *argh*
Tomorrow I think I'll have this all plumbed, then I just have to mount the return pump to the stand to keep it in place; probably just use some screws and washers... if I use bolts I'd have to empty the frag tank to get under the stand to remove the pump.
Once I get that all done I'm going to do a water test with tap water... fill the sump up some, fire on the pump to push water up to the display, rinse/repeat and see what happens.
More pictures shortly after I get a little more done tonight.
Tomorrow I think I'll have this all plumbed, then I just have to mount the return pump to the stand to keep it in place; probably just use some screws and washers... if I use bolts I'd have to empty the frag tank to get under the stand to remove the pump.
Once I get that all done I'm going to do a water test with tap water... fill the sump up some, fire on the pump to push water up to the display, rinse/repeat and see what happens.
More pictures shortly after I get a little more done tonight.
OP
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MrX
Non-member
Okie dokie pokie. Here's some pics of tonights progress. First up, my work areas and my new toy, a Rigid 10in. compound miter saw with laser! I was tired of hacksawing PVC tubing. Also a pic of my frag tank stand doubling as a glue/junk station.
Next up, tonights plumbing work. First shot is a general view of it all. I ended up buying some cinderblocks and a new sheet of cabinet grade plywood (cut up to size for the stock tank). Now the stock tank sits about 3-4 inches higher thank the return pump.
In this first pic you can see I have the two drains plumbed to the stock tank. One of the drains, on the ceiling, has a T- with ball valves on each side; I've added a coupling there with threads so I can attach a hose, close the valve to the stock tank, and drain water right out the window/slider. You can also see the T- on the other drain, on the wall, that will feed the frag tank, which will overflow back into the stock tank. In the lower-left you can see the T- for my return pump; the left branch goes from 1.5" to 3/4" and then back upstairs to another T- for the dual returns. The right branch is just a loop from the return pump right back into the sump; was a "just in case/maybe" kinda thing if I need to reduce pressure or whatever. union ball valves on either side of the T- control the flow.
Next picture shows the return pump input/output . I still need to add a union between the two 90-degree elbows on the input side, and another in between the two 45s on the output side. The next picture will show a slightly different angle. Not sure if I'll add a check valve, and if I do it will probably just go up where the 3/4" spa flex is; I have a bunch of wiggle room there.
Next up, tonights plumbing work. First shot is a general view of it all. I ended up buying some cinderblocks and a new sheet of cabinet grade plywood (cut up to size for the stock tank). Now the stock tank sits about 3-4 inches higher thank the return pump.
In this first pic you can see I have the two drains plumbed to the stock tank. One of the drains, on the ceiling, has a T- with ball valves on each side; I've added a coupling there with threads so I can attach a hose, close the valve to the stock tank, and drain water right out the window/slider. You can also see the T- on the other drain, on the wall, that will feed the frag tank, which will overflow back into the stock tank. In the lower-left you can see the T- for my return pump; the left branch goes from 1.5" to 3/4" and then back upstairs to another T- for the dual returns. The right branch is just a loop from the return pump right back into the sump; was a "just in case/maybe" kinda thing if I need to reduce pressure or whatever. union ball valves on either side of the T- control the flow.
Next picture shows the return pump input/output . I still need to add a union between the two 90-degree elbows on the input side, and another in between the two 45s on the output side. The next picture will show a slightly different angle. Not sure if I'll add a check valve, and if I do it will probably just go up where the 3/4" spa flex is; I have a bunch of wiggle room there.
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MrX
Non-member
Continuing tonights update...
A different angle of the return plumbing. 1.5" spa flex is a PITA to deal with, I gave up for most of it and am just using regular PVC (waste of money!). I may have to rip out the one piece in this picture, not sure how tight the bond is.
This picture shows how I'm using two 45-degree elbows to get back to the wall without using 90s. To support the return piping I just screwed an extra piece of the cabinet plywood to the back of my frag stand. Once I glue together the return plumbing I'll secure it to the board.
A different angle on the stock tank and drains. The two ball valves will be to regulate the flow going to the frag tank. I have unions on the three pipes going into the stock tank. The loop from the return will probably be moved to the left/shortened. You can also see what I did to the stock tank output - it's raised up a bit and has a filter screen doodad to keep sand/etc. out of the pump.
Other stuffages for today:
- bought two 44g brute lids for my water tanks. Neither Lowes or HD will sell them separate; I got lucky and Robinson's Hardware in Hudson had them (I was there returning some extra plumbing stuff).
- received my maxi-jet 1200 (for use in the basement to move/mix water and for the frag tank); bought some tubing to use with it
- received my cheapo floating thermometer to toss in the sump (tied to something of course)
- received my 3-n-1 algae scraper cleaning tool (34" long)
Tomorrow I should get receive my: API test kit, refractometer, magfloat-350, and two jager 250w heaters (might buy a third at some point)
Plumbing should get finished tomorrow, and then after a couple hours I'll do some kinda tap water wet test. Is it all right to just fill the sump and fire up the return pump to get the water upstairs??
A different angle of the return plumbing. 1.5" spa flex is a PITA to deal with, I gave up for most of it and am just using regular PVC (waste of money!). I may have to rip out the one piece in this picture, not sure how tight the bond is.
This picture shows how I'm using two 45-degree elbows to get back to the wall without using 90s. To support the return piping I just screwed an extra piece of the cabinet plywood to the back of my frag stand. Once I glue together the return plumbing I'll secure it to the board.
A different angle on the stock tank and drains. The two ball valves will be to regulate the flow going to the frag tank. I have unions on the three pipes going into the stock tank. The loop from the return will probably be moved to the left/shortened. You can also see what I did to the stock tank output - it's raised up a bit and has a filter screen doodad to keep sand/etc. out of the pump.
Other stuffages for today:
- bought two 44g brute lids for my water tanks. Neither Lowes or HD will sell them separate; I got lucky and Robinson's Hardware in Hudson had them (I was there returning some extra plumbing stuff).
- received my maxi-jet 1200 (for use in the basement to move/mix water and for the frag tank); bought some tubing to use with it
- received my cheapo floating thermometer to toss in the sump (tied to something of course)
- received my 3-n-1 algae scraper cleaning tool (34" long)
Tomorrow I should get receive my: API test kit, refractometer, magfloat-350, and two jager 250w heaters (might buy a third at some point)
Plumbing should get finished tomorrow, and then after a couple hours I'll do some kinda tap water wet test. Is it all right to just fill the sump and fire up the return pump to get the water upstairs??
OP
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MrX
Non-member
Not yet! She has mentioned a couple times that this project seems to keep getting bigger every time she looks. I think she is anxiously awaiting fish but won't admit it.
I bought some cheap drawer liner stuff that I was going to cut up and double over to go between the pump and the stand. If that doesn't do the job it will be easy enough to remove and get a real rubber mat.
Today I got the last few pieces of plumbing and am about to glue in the last ball valve!! Woot woot! I added a couple more unions and this ball valve so I can order a check valve online the pop it in when it gets here.
I took the stock tank outside and filled it about a third of the way to check my bulkhead and the outlet plumbing. Other than a small trickle coming from the cheap-arsed Lowe's union ball valve (closed-position) it looks like everything is holding up. I figure if I ever have to dismantle things I can toss a buck under it or make a cap or something. Thoughts?
Coolio ... heaters, magfloat, refractometer, and the test kit just showed up! Hmmm... somehow I musta ordered two API test kits. Guess I'm set with test for quite a while.
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MrX
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Just installed the last ball-valve, put some silicone around the stock tank's original bulkhead, added some additional support to the plumbing, and glue in the return pump pressure relief pipe back to the stock tank. I think I need a slightly longer down piece for this but I'm out of 1.5" pcv. Will probably buy another one or try and find a place that sells smaller pieces.
Later tonight after my daughter and I go to her "Someone Special" dance I might start the tap-water water test!!
Once that's complete I'm going to drain it (should be interesting). Then I plan on:
1) Putting the glass covers on the DT with a couple books or something in place ;o)
2) Pumping the 40 gallons of RO/DI from the frag tank sitting on the floor into the stock tank, adding the right amount of IO salt, and mixing it a bit. Then up to the DT it goes via the return pump.
3) Pause, collect thoughts, check for leaks again, etc.
4) Shut off RO/DI in/out
5) Pump the 55g drum with the RO/DI float valve into the stock tank, add IO salt, mix, whomp, there it goes!
6) Pause, leak check
7) Turn the RO/DI back on to start filling the 55g again
8) Rinse and repeat with the other 55g drum
At this point I should have about 140gs of water in the system. Hoping it's enough to fill the stock tank over my filter pipe so that way I can let the system run for a bit and adjust the water level. Otherwise I'll have to wait until I generate the additional required water.
Once the levels look good and things appear to be working I'll figure out the placement of the skimmer in the sump. Then it's time for some fish-goo to kick off the cycle!
Later tonight after my daughter and I go to her "Someone Special" dance I might start the tap-water water test!!
Once that's complete I'm going to drain it (should be interesting). Then I plan on:
1) Putting the glass covers on the DT with a couple books or something in place ;o)
2) Pumping the 40 gallons of RO/DI from the frag tank sitting on the floor into the stock tank, adding the right amount of IO salt, and mixing it a bit. Then up to the DT it goes via the return pump.
3) Pause, collect thoughts, check for leaks again, etc.
4) Shut off RO/DI in/out
5) Pump the 55g drum with the RO/DI float valve into the stock tank, add IO salt, mix, whomp, there it goes!
6) Pause, leak check
7) Turn the RO/DI back on to start filling the 55g again
8) Rinse and repeat with the other 55g drum
At this point I should have about 140gs of water in the system. Hoping it's enough to fill the stock tank over my filter pipe so that way I can let the system run for a bit and adjust the water level. Otherwise I'll have to wait until I generate the additional required water.
Once the levels look good and things appear to be working I'll figure out the placement of the skimmer in the sump. Then it's time for some fish-goo to kick off the cycle!
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MrX
Non-member
Finished up the plumbing earlier today. I set up a spot between some unions so I can order and add a check valve. Other than that all I have to do is:
- plumb the frag tank once I get it emptied of RODI (after my tap water wet test) and drilled for the gravity feed back to the sump
- finish up the 3 lines into the sump; i.e., determine ideal length, etc.
Tonight I did a small test to see if my display tank plumbing was holding up. I took a 5g Home Depot bucket and poured it into each overflow, first one, then the other. The water got just over the overflow drain point and some water went down to the sump. No leaks anywhere that I can see! (Got a bucket and newspaper in the stand under the drains.)
One thing I noticed is that some water still trickles out of the overflow... I don't think this is an issue as the stand-pipes aren't water tight, so the water just goes into the drain line. I imagine once the system is fulling running this will be a non-issue. Even if some water does go that way it just follows the drain line and isn't a "real" leak.
Thinking about how I'm going to empty the DT of the tap water using my "quick drain" line in the basement I've decided that I'll just close some valves, pull one stand-pipe, and use a maxi-jet to jump over the overflow wall, and then let gravity do its job. In the basement the "quick drain" will just be a garden hose out into the back yard. Worst case any drips would fall right into the sump.
Here's some pictures of the final plumb. If anyone has any feedback, especially on the return pump input from the stock tank I'd appreciate it.
Getting close, I can smell the salt in the air!
- plumb the frag tank once I get it emptied of RODI (after my tap water wet test) and drilled for the gravity feed back to the sump
- finish up the 3 lines into the sump; i.e., determine ideal length, etc.
Tonight I did a small test to see if my display tank plumbing was holding up. I took a 5g Home Depot bucket and poured it into each overflow, first one, then the other. The water got just over the overflow drain point and some water went down to the sump. No leaks anywhere that I can see! (Got a bucket and newspaper in the stand under the drains.)
One thing I noticed is that some water still trickles out of the overflow... I don't think this is an issue as the stand-pipes aren't water tight, so the water just goes into the drain line. I imagine once the system is fulling running this will be a non-issue. Even if some water does go that way it just follows the drain line and isn't a "real" leak.
Thinking about how I'm going to empty the DT of the tap water using my "quick drain" line in the basement I've decided that I'll just close some valves, pull one stand-pipe, and use a maxi-jet to jump over the overflow wall, and then let gravity do its job. In the basement the "quick drain" will just be a garden hose out into the back yard. Worst case any drips would fall right into the sump.
Here's some pictures of the final plumb. If anyone has any feedback, especially on the return pump input from the stock tank I'd appreciate it.
Getting close, I can smell the salt in the air!
