Switching Salts for Cyano bloom????

[mvallee]

Well I am ready to enact the nuclear option on this crap. I still feel like if I do not know the root cause it will just come back but can't stand looking at it anymore.

[video]https://youtu.be/jV4ZFrziP1c[/video]

The whole tank is bad but about 45 seconds in is the worst spots.
I have been fighting this too long to have it be getting worse. This video is 1 hour after lights on, granted it has been 3 days (starting to get tired of all the maintenance) since my last cleaning but I siphoned it clean Sunday with my weekly 30 gallon water change. I am so disgusted I do not even want to look at it anymore so ordering the chemi clean. I keep thinking it will burn itself out, run out of whatever it is feeding on but no such luck. I did start the switch this weekend to a new salt, IORC so about 50% of the water change was with it.

I may be missing something obvious but I got all my numbers in check, just did another round of tests this morning to be sure,
Phos 0,
Nitrates .25,
PH 8.0 (still early)
KH 9.3
Cal 470
Mag 1400
Salinity 1.025
TDI on the outlet of my RODI 0

the water is clean, my Macro algae in my sump is not growing like it used to and my Cheato has slowed it's growth to almost nill. I moved everything around in the sump to be sure nothing I was missing in there either and added filter socks in the sump that are a total PITA. UGH

chemiclean and probably another 3 day lights out. Luckily the fish are still doing good but some of the corals (what I have left) are getting stressed. Maybe I will try taking off the LEDS and going back to T5's I don't know, I did see sun hitting the tank but only a small portion between 2:30 to 4 could that be triggering the whole mess. coming in through the sliders and not a good way to block that out either.

sorry to go on and on, soo much work, hours every week to still be looking at this is disheartening I want to get back to focusing on adding corals and beautifying the tank not fighting this mess.

 

[JasonandSarah]

Try taking the gfo offline and allow your phosphates to go up a bit. Then when you put the gfo back online only use about 1/2 of what you normally use.
This is only a guess but this is what I'm doing right now and I seem to be getting results slowly. I honestly believe that stripping the water of phosphates all together could be at the very least contributing to the issues. Also I wonder if somehow the gfo is releasing other things before it's completely exhausted? So the gfo would still be binding phosphates but possibly releasing other metals it has binded? Idk if I'm making sence but I do know that gfo binds some heavy metals, so it's only a theory. I've also wondered about iron but my iron test are coming back very low. Possibly insoluble iron? Idk? Good luck and keep us posted

 

[mvallee]

I have been thinking about the GFO, My tank was fine as far as nuisance algae and Cyano was concerned, my numbers were high and I had hair algae growing but the lawnmower blenny kept it all in check. I had and still have an issue keeping SPS and think I am ready to give up on that, when I posted about not being able to keep SPS alive the comments mainly were my water was too nutrient rich for SPS Phos of .30 and nitrates at 45+ my Alk was around 11 as well so I added a dual chamber BRS GFO/Carbon reactor limited feedings and have my Alk in normal range now so now I have great numbers but traded it for this Cyano with no hair algae I am thinking maybe it is time to take the GFO off line for a bit. and add it in slowly if needed and keep up with the limited feedings and maintaining Alk where I have it.

I bought around 8 SPS's of different types from Dong and do have a couple survivors but of course the expensive ones got RTN right away and the birds nest pretty much bleached out right away but no algae grows on them so I think they are still alive. I will keep an eye on the survivors and see if I can get some growth out of them and figure out next steps.

Thanks for the push, going to take the GFO off line now and change out the carbon

 

[jokersplayground]

My cyano is starting to go away. This is what i did to get rid of it. I did not use any chemicals, i add a ton of sand a rock dwelling snails that eat cyano and other algae. Then i also add 6 mangroves to the tank to. Now that it has been 3 days i can already see a big difference in the cyano and other algae. Maybe give this a try and see if it works for you before you start dumping chemicals in your tank

 

[mvallee]

what snails did you get that eat Cyano, I read mexican turbo snails somewhere would eat it are there others? have you seen any of them eating it? I do have quite a bit of nutrient export going right now and was thinking mangroves if I can ever get my cellar sump system going. My fighting Conch died when this got really bad and have read it can be toxic in large amounts to some inverts, I will get another once this gets under control. I also have a dragon goby for sand sifting that is in QT right now, I think that will help alot too.

I am disgusted but trying a few more things before the chemical treatment, I have so much that I am afraid I could wipe it out but without figuring out why I have it, it will come right back.

What was the rational on the added sand? I have about 1.5 -2.5" of sand in my tank but with all this siphoning lately I will be having to add some more once I get this under control?

thx for the suggestions

 

[jokersplayground]

The thing that i found out about cyano and other trouble algae is they pull all the nutrients out of the water before anything else can. So you will never be able to read it on a test kit for instants. The mangroves are hogs they will rip the nutrients away from the other algae. So what i have been doing is everyday i have been removing the cyano and other algae very little at a time before the lights go off for the night. That the mangroves will suck up that left over nutrients before the cyano can. For the snails i bought dwarf ceriths, florida ceriths, i got a ton od nassarius snails to help move the sand around, i forgot what else i got. But the two type of ceriths have been mowing it down and the add benifet of having the dwarfs is they get in the nooks and cranies that most critters cant

 

[JasonandSarah]

The mangroves are a good idea, but from the reading I've done you need a LOT of mangroves to support a large system.
As far as snails eradicating cyano? I honestly think if does little to no help. From everything I've read all they do is eat it and sh¡+ it right back out. Witch in turn just spreads it.
As far as Cemi-clean is concerned, I've talked to a couple coral farmers and they all swear by it. I'm someone that hates adding chemicals to my tank but Cemi-clean is a little different as it just binds Doc and makes it easier to remove. As long as you make sure there's enough H2O you should be good. I've never had one loss from Cemi-clean.

 

[jokersplayground]

There should be plenty of h20 lol. I think you oxygen.

 

[mvallee]

Once I get it under control so it is not growing like crazy I think that is when I will whack it out of the park with chemi-clean.

I have plenty of nutrient export with Cheato and some Macro algaes (dragons breath and red flame I think) I heard with Mangroves you have to get the seed or pod I forget what they call it but once they start rooting they should not be moved so it would take a while to benefit, I have also heard you need to be careful with the roots as they can start separating seams so be careful.

I am also considering taping over some of the off colored LEDS, I have reefbreeders, they have red LEDS that I have been reading a lot of people blaming on algae outbreaks plus the whites in the white channel are a warm white, 22 4500K neutral whites, that can't be good so I have turned down the white channel and added a dual T5 54w back in with brand spankin new bulbs reef spec actinic and Blue Plus. I have also added socks back to my sump hoping to catch any floaters and excess food and change them every couple of days, what a PITA. I also pulled out the GFO and will monitor the phosphates more often but have seen GFO blamed on a few threads out there for Cyano. Last I changed my salt, switching over to IORC from Red Sea coral pro. I manually dose so just need to monitor a little closer but with no real SPS not too worried about keeping elevated levels.
I may also try a blackout one more time too, we'll see how I can make out with the changes I have made thus far. Lots of little changes, nothing drastic all geared to address Cyano outbreaks.

 

[JasonandSarah]

There should be plenty of h20 lol. I think you oxygen.

Lol that was stupid! Sorry

 

[JasonandSarah]

For what it's worth.... I'm a stick head and love nothing more in my tank then tons of Sps, I've recently switched to HW reefer salt mix from IORC because the alk is just to high In Reef crystals. Another member on here recommend a lower dkh and I've been trying it out with great results. Idk why, what or how? But I do know I run and have always run leds and with the lower dkh I'm seeing twice the growth I was before. Keeping my dkh around 9 currently but I may go lower.

Lastly the cyano I get doesn't effect my sps much? Then again I'm really starting to question if it's cyano at all? My cyano (or whatever it is) grows so much different then you typically see it. Then again cyano does what it wants to.

 

[mvallee]

LOL I would love to be a stick head but no luck on that front. I might give it another shot because I love the color and natural beauty of an SPS dominated tank, I have added a couple iffy fish (blue throat trigger and valentini puffer) so we'll see how they do with my remaining corals as they are listed as most likely of their species to be ok in a reef tank.
I have been seeing ad's for the HW salt mix and the reviews look great, thank for the recommendation.

I know it's early but I swear there is less Cyano in there than what was in there yesterday, getting ready to do my weekly 30 gallon water change before the Easter gathering, gotta have that tank sparkling for the guest's right, really hoping I have turned the corner.

 

[reefstarter]

Just keep at it . post up some pictures here so we can see the suspected Cyno . Im sure you have given it a posative ID but a second third and hundreth opinion never hurts lol. I had been playing with high Phosphates and nitrates for a while with my system ( which I won't anymore ) well maybe phosphates . But anyway . those params do have some effect on sps for sure . color , and growth on most is lacking . Other sticks grew like crazy in it . But through all that I never had any major cyno . still I do have some . but not a lot mostly on sand . I haven't really targeted it . But just recently I started vinegar dosing to help control nitrates which I had gotten to 0 with a few water changes and some nitrate sponge media . But it went right back up after a bit . I am not over feeding . Cyno is stubborn stuff , but it is also the oldest and possibly the first life this planet had so its still around and will always be I think . unless its terrible and covering everything I leave it alone . My point in all this I think is I don't think the Cyno is causing issues with your SPS . but the high trates def will some say Phos will stop growth not sure yet about that

 

[mvallee]

So much for that, Cyano still taking over with a new twist that I assume has to do with taking GFO offline, 2 days and my glass was covered in algae. readings are still spot on with phosphates 0 and Nitrates between .10 and .25. and 50 gallons of water changes this past weekend with RODI water 0 TDS and siphoning as much as I could from the sand and rocks.

So here is what I am starting to suspect, tough one because I know lots of people run these but hair algae and cyano both like off spectrum light right and the reef breeder photon 32 I have over the tank has 22, 4500K neutral whites, 4500K? everything I have read says that is sump spectrum to grow algae, macro algae, cheato etc... why is that in my light over my reef tank? what am I missing 22 4500k 3 watt leds on one channel! I am going to turn down channel two for a while and see if that makes a difference. That sucks because the rest of that channel has 10 480nm blues,​ 4 660nm reds, and 12 410-420nm violets but worth a try to see if it makes a difference. I am going to try 20% during peak and may go down more if I see any difference.

Anyone think I am on the right track or way off base?

 

[JasonandSarah]

So much for that, Cyano still taking over with a new twist that I assume has to do with taking GFO offline, 2 days and my glass was covered in algae. readings are still spot on with phosphates 0 and Nitrates between .10 and .25. and 50 gallons of water changes this past weekend with RODI water 0 TDS and siphoning as much as I could from the sand and rocks.

So here is what I am starting to suspect, tough one because I know lots of people run these but hair algae and cyano both like off spectrum light right and the reef breeder photon 32 I have over the tank has 22, 4500K neutral whites, 4500K? everything I have read says that is sump spectrum to grow algae, macro algae, cheato etc... why is that in my light over my reef tank? what am I missing 22 4500k 3 watt leds on one channel! I am going to turn down channel two for a while and see if that makes a difference. That sucks because the rest of that channel has 10 480nm blues,​ 4 660nm reds, and 12 410-420nm violets but worth a try to see if it makes a difference. I am going to try 20% during peak and may go down more if I see any difference.

Anyone think I am on the right track or way off base?

You could be on the right track idk? I know lots of lights use neutral white 4500k leds. my lights have cool whites witch a lot of reefers say aren't best for a reef tank, So who knows?
I was told many times by different people that cyano and most any algae can't survive long term on just light alone, They need the nutrients as well.
My cyano has started to recede back and all I've done is take the gfo offline and I've started to put a little prime in my Ro/Di water (also reading 0 tds) just in case. What are you using to test phosphates? If there still reading 0 I don't see how that could be making things worse? If your test kit is accurate I'd try to get your phosphates to 0.03 and maintain that number if possible.

 

[mvallee]

I use the hanna low level phosphate tester and originally was reading .30 then as I worked on less feedings and adding GFO watched it go down to .15 and now .00 so I feel pretty confident that it is working.
I was thinking GFO offline caused the algae on the glass because after two days it was very unusual and that ate up the phos to still give a 0 reading but something had to feed it, thanks for the .03 recomendation I was wondering what I should be shooting for, I know .00 is too low to sustain and I have a couple things in my tank that I think are suffering since it went to 0, I had a scrolling sponge that was really starting to take off and has stopped growing and lost some of it's color and my zoas are not spreading and seemed to be closed up more and some of my Paly's are looking pretty bland. everything is give and take.

I have to be missing something with this setup hope I find it soon weather is getting nicer and other things are going to start needing my attention around the house than the tank.

Glad to hear you are wining the Cyano battle.

 

[reef87]

i thought when tank has algae boom, testing phosphate is always going to yields 0 reading?

 

[jokersplayground]

that is true. im back in the same boat as you now bro. my mangroves helped but its right back. i cant figure it out either. i have a 250w 14k halide and the bulb is only 3-4 months old. its starting to piss me off. i even tried to switch salts that didnt help. what kind of rocks are you using?

 

[mvallee]

I have 150 pounds originally dry Marco and 50 or so live miscellaneous rock from others that were breaking down there tanks so not sure what types. I also have at least 100 pounds of the Marco sand, I forget exactly but it came in 4 boxes that were at least 25 pounds each.

I have read about the phosphate leaching issues from Marco but that seems to have been from old batches and not the new stuff but who knows.

I ended up ordering the chemiclean, should be in next week, I see nothing else making a difference yet so we'll see. I really do not think the lights are the issue as so many people run them without this issue and at higher levels than I run mine but we'll see if turning down the whites has any impact.
I am 3 water changes (about 90 gallons) into switching in IORC salt with no difference noted.
such a struggle, can't wait to come out the other side.

 

[jokersplayground]

I have marco rock to. Im prob gunna buy that to im getting fed up with this crap