A.T.O brand auto top off system question

[fulinn]

Anyone out there use this type of top off system ? I'm having a small issue with the one I have.

I installed it a couple of weeks ago and its been working flawlessly except for one issue.

I have a 13 gallon reservoiur for my top off water, a small MJ pump to move the water over to the sump.

Whenever I fill up my reservour with fresh top off water, water begins to flow from the top off barrel into the sump regardless of the amount of water in the sump.

The same thing happens even if I actually un-plug the MJ pump. I have to pull the pump up out of the water to stop the flow, then replace it in the top off barrel and it will work perfectly fine.

Is it being caused by the fact that my reservour is much high depth than the sump that it is feeding into ? The feed hose is NOT below the water level of the sump, it is actually about 6" above the high water mark.

It looks like my best solution is to remove the pump from the top off barrel before filling with fresh top up water.

Any other thoughts ?

Bonnie

 

[delta]

Why run the top off pump to the tank not the sump?

Then the top off barrel will be lower than the end of the top off filling hose and will not siphon on you.

As long as you have a water height above your top off hose end it will always create a siphon as soon as you start the pump.

 

[Dave]

I use a Tom's Aqualift pump with mine and don't have a siphon problem.

 

[fulinn]

ok, so it is a syphon that is causing the problem ?

So, an aqua lifter type pump would eliminate the syphon problem, even if I'm running the hose down into my sump ?

I could run it to my display tank, but it would not look nice and I the water level in the tank never varies, it evaps from the sump.

Thank you for your ideas and suggestions, keep'em coming !

Bonnie

 

[delta]

I could run it to my display tank, but it would not look nice and I the water level in the tank never varies, it evaps from the sump.

Well you see the evaporation in your sump, however the water evaporates ever where in the system.

You could just make it so it fills inside of your overflow to hide it in the display. It still accomplishes the same thing. It doesn't matter where you put the water back into the system, only location that is important is where the sensors are, the need to be where (your sump) the water fluctuates as it evaporates.

 

[smithcreek]

So, an aqua lifter type pump would eliminate the syphon problem, even if I'm running the hose down into my sump ?

I'm using the JBJ ATO topoff with an aqualifter. I remember the aqualifter pump literature specifically talks about not creating a siphon in either direction.

 

[fulinn]

I'm using the JBJ ATO topoff with an aqualifter. I remember the aqualifter pump literature specifically talks about not creating a siphon in either direction.

Thank you, I think this is the proper solution to my problem. No the Aqualifter has a much smaller hose diameter than my current Maxi Jet pump. Does this make any difference ? I would guess it would just take a couple extra moments to fill the tank to the proper level, right ?

Bonnie

 

[smithcreek]

Thank you, I think this is the proper solution to my problem. No the Aqualifter has a much smaller hose diameter than my current Maxi Jet pump. Does this make any difference ? I would guess it would just take a couple extra moments to fill the tank to the proper level, right ?

Bonnie

Just to be clear, the Aqaulifter pump literature gives a WARNING that you must avoid creating a siphon in either direction, so you should keep the top off water lower than whatever you are filling up. I just turn the auto time out switch located inside the ATO all the way to 15 minutes. Even for the full 15 minutes the aqualifter pump could only add a gallon or so of top-off to your system.

 

[willray]

I also use an aqualifter with an x-10 controller tops off every 3 hrs.
The aqualifter can/will create siphon.The water that's in the hose is what's creating it.My aqualifter sits on top of top off resevoir(sp?)and will only siphon if I overfill higher than the sump level.Actually I overfill it(about a gal) intentually 'cause it takes an 90 min to siphon that much.As smithcreek says lower works but if the hose comes off while it's lower

 

[fulinn]

ok, so inside the ATO is a switch that can be set for max run time? is 15 min my only choice ?

I've attached a sketch of my system to help. I'd want to place the external pump so its sitting beside the ATO system probably at the same height ?

Then I can set the time out to 15 min, say, and get no more than 1 gallon or so off water ? How long before it will turn and run again after auto shut off?

Where inside the ATO is this setting, will I recognize it never being inside the ATO before ?

Thanks !

 

[smithcreek]

Your set-up looks fine. Just make sure the end of the tubing in the return chamber is higher than the water level in your top off container or else you will create a siphon.

You can place the pump anywhere but as willray says if the pump is below the water level in your top off container and the hose happens to come off the water can siphon out. I use a 5 gallon bucket and put the pump on top of the bucket.

The timer is located inside the ATO and is a little grey dial about the diameter of a pea. There are a couple markings on it and a slot for a small phillips head screwdriver. I forget which way to turn for more or less time.

If the auto time-out is activated the ATO will NOT reactivate by itself (unfortunately). You must reactivate it by moving the float on the float switch up or down all the way. Kind of a pain if it decides to activate when you're gone all day, so that's why I set it to 15 minutes. Less chance it will activate.

 

[Dave]

I set mine to 15 minutes too. I think there are 4-6 options on the adjustment pod. Shown here http://www.marinedepot.com/ps/ps_ViewItem.aspx?idproduct=JB5111&tab=1
I have my pump below the water level of the ATO bucket but keeping the tubing that tops off the sump out of the water has prevented a siphon issue.

 

[fulinn]

Thank you guys, you're the best.

My problem is coming when I fill my top-off bucket to the point where it is higher than the hose end leading to the sump. The TO will fill the sump until the TO level is below the level of the sump hose.

So, short term anyhow I think I simply need to fill the TO bucket two inches less than I've been doing and I should be fine.

I'm going to give some thought (comments welcome) on wether or not a MJ pump or a Aqua lifter is better for my needs.

The TO delivery hose is NEVER below the return water level so I think my syphon problem only occurs when I over fill the TO bucket.

Bonnie

 

[smithcreek]

I'm going to give some thought (comments welcome) on wether or not a MJ pump or a Aqua lifter is better for my needs.

Obviously the main consideration is what happens in a failure. If a switch gets stuck on with the mj1200 you better have the auto time out set for a very short interval, or you'll flood your tank with fresh water or nuke it with Kalc.

On the other hand, I think the auto time out has more of a tendency to kick in when you are using the aqualifter since it is pretty slow especially as the level gets low in your top off container. So you run the risk of having no top-off going into your tank. That's what I'm worried about as we prepare to go to Michigan for 4 days.