GFCI tripping...

[Aquadiva]

OK, so my GFCI keeps tripping in the middle of the night.

At first, it was happening every couple of weeks, or so. Now, it's two nights in a row. I can't seem to locate the trouble. I keep swapping stuff with the other other bank of plugs, but I can't seem to find the trouble. Odd thing, it seems to occur at 2 am.

So, I figured it had to be something that goes on during the night. Kalk top-off, reverse light cycle, etc. Doesn't seem to be that. If it happened EVERY night, it would just be a matter of time.... but it's hit or miss.

So... is there some "electrical" way to troubleshoot this problem, or do I keep swapping plugs around until I find the culprit.

 

[JayM]

Can you simulate your 'nite' and run through to try and trip it? Then run through again, with one less thing plugged in each night.....

Looks like plug swaps, unfortunately.

 

[Dave]

Anything else in the house using the same circuit?

 

[~Flighty~]

Heater I bet.

 

[stingythingy45]

^
+1

 

[Aquadiva]

Can you simulate your 'nite' and run through to try and trip it? Then run through again, with one less thing plugged in each night.....

Looks like plug swaps, unfortunately.

Well, I tried the night run-through....nothing happened. I was kinda hoping for some sort of a test I could run -- OK, hubby would run it.

Anything else in the house using the same circuit?

Nope.. it's a dedicated circuit.

Heater I bet.

OK... so there was one heater left on that circuit. If it's the culprit, it should trip the other breaker at some point.

Inventory of what is left on the "problem" circuit:

skimmer pump - sedra 9000
return pump -- iwaki 55 (this is the one that got wet the time it tripped last month)
air pump -- attached to airstone in top off container
fan -- for T5 light
ATO
Kalk stirir pump -- ? possibility here
the powerhead to feed the CA Reactor

That's it. I surprised the other circuit hasn't popped a breaker, yet.

 

[wrassefan]

have you tried changing the gfci outlet or circuit breaker (esp if it is buzzing)? They do go bad once in awhile especially near salt water

 

[Jennifer]

^^^ Yup Gfi's do go bad on occasion. I had 1 that would pop all the time. Switched it out and everything was fine.

The heater does sound like it could be the culprit as well.

 

[Aquadiva]

have you tried changing the gfci outlet or circuit breaker (esp if it is buzzing)? They do go bad once in awhile especially near salt water

Hmm... how would one check this? It's relatively new -- hubby made the panel about a year ago. If it pops again with the heater off the circuit, I'll have him replace the GFCI, then. I didn't know they could go bad.

 

[JayM]

Hmm... how would one check this? It's relatively new -- hubby made the panel about a year ago. If it pops again with the heater off the circuit, I'll have him replace the GFCI, then. I didn't know they could go bad.

If it pops again with the heater off the circuit, you need to look at the pump, which HAS tripped a GFI......

 

[Reefried]

I would plug everything else into another strip, and plug one thing per night into the gfi...But I too think its the GFCI itself they are known to go bad after a year or two, especially since it use to be once a month then it went to every night....also is there a chance that when a pump or ATO kicks on there is a little splash of water?? that will trip it (its what its for)...or any SALT CREEP? that will also trip it...good luck hunting it down

 

[reefkeeper2]

Get a hand held multimeter at radio shack, or borrow one . Put one lead in the water and ground the other. Unplug everything and then one by one plug your stuff in. When you see a jump in current, that's probably the problem devise.
The other thing it could be is a very slight buildup of moisture on a plug. This happened to me and I went nuts before I discovered it. There is just enough wetness on the plug when things get damp to close a circuit and trip the fault detector. This makes sense as it's happening at night when things cool down. Clean all the plugs off with paper towel and wrap then in electrical tape.

 

[Aquadiva]

Get a hand held multimeter at radio shack, or borrow one . Put one lead in the water and ground the other. Unplug everything and then one by one plug your stuff in. When you see a jump in current, that's probably the problem devise.

Now THAT's what I'm talking about. Alrighty... I'll get hubby to give this one a go and see if that works. We've got a multimeter (I don't know how to use it though ).

As far as wet/damp/salt creep covered plugs go -- I don't think that's very likely. The tanks on one side of the wall, and the electrical panel is one the other. There would have to be a MAJOR malfunction to get the plugs wet and it would be quite obvious. Think large flood or major gushing of water.

Could be a condensation build-up, but it's not that humid yet down there. August... well, that's another story....

Gonna try the multi-meter thing tonight. If that yields no results, I'll go with Reefried's idea, and put everything on another strip and leave only the heater on the offending circuit. It's gonna get chilly tonight, so if it is the heater, it should trip. Then, take it from there.

Thanks for all the suggestions... I'll let you know how it all goes.

 

[Andy V]

I live in a brand new building, and I had a GFCI fail for no reason at all. I mean FAIL, not trip. It was sharing a circuit with overhead lights and a plug. Nothing was plugged in, and it just failed in the middle of the night with nothing on. Strange. I had to replace it in the panel. That was before I got a tank. Then I got the tank, and plugged it into one of those plug in GFCI outlets, mainly because I was afraid of another failure in the panel. So basically I had a double GFCI. The plug in one failed as well, and I got rid of it and only have the one in the panel now and everything is fine. It seems like these things act a little funny sometimes.

 

[JayM]

Now THAT's what I'm talking about. Alrighty... I'll get hubby to give this one a go and see if that works. We've got a multimeter (I don't know how to use it though ).

As far as wet/damp/salt creep covered plugs go -- I don't think that's very likely. The tanks on one side of the wall, and the electrical panel is one the other. There would have to be a MAJOR malfunction to get the plugs wet and it would be quite obvious. Think large flood or major gushing of water.

Could be a condensation build-up, but it's not that humid yet down there. August... well, that's another story....

Gonna try the multi-meter thing tonight. If that yields no results, I'll go with Reefried's idea, and put everything on another strip and leave only the heater on the offending circuit. It's gonna get chilly tonight, so if it is the heater, it should trip. Then, take it from there.

Thanks for all the suggestions... I'll let you know how it all goes.

Keep in mind that the load on the circuit will be much lower with just the heater on that circuit, and might not trip the GFI on the lower watt draw.....

 

[NateHanson]

I'm not sure how much difference the total wattage load will make for a GFI tripping. I think GFIs compare the current on the hot to the return current on the neutral. When there's more coming in than going out, indicating that current is travelling to ground through an unplanned path, the GFI trips. So checking for current in the tank (as reefkeeper suggested) is a good place to start IMO.

I'd also just go ahead and swap out the GFI recepticle. They can be duds, and it'll cost you less than $10.

Good luck, Nate

 

[Aquadiva]

update...

Well, we took reefkeeper2's suggestion and were getting some mighty strange readings on that circuit. Plugging different stuff in would make the meter jump in unexpected ways....

When he tested the other circuit... nothing. So, he went ahead and replaced the gfci. The second cirucit seems to be operating like the first. I took the possible "offending heater" off as well. Swapped it with a less crucial heater in another spot. It it trips the GFCI, it'll only take out a light.

So, time will tell. See if something trips. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[Aquadiva]

Further update:

OK, another tripped circuit. Ugggg....
So, same circuit hubby replaced the gfci, on.

I pulled the plug on the mag pump that feeds the refugium and plugged it into the other circuit. Popped that gfci, too. Hope I found the culprit. This is a PITA.

So...is there anyway to tell when a pump is going bad??

 

[JayM]

It trips GFCIs

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Aquadiva]

It trips GFCIs

Sorry, couldn't resist.

ha... ha... ha...
I suppose I deserved that.