External pump without drilling sump?

[steve214989]

Setting up a new sump and am wondering if there is a way to run an external pump without drilling the sump. My sump is a 55 gallon and from what I understand they are tempered glass. Im looking for an external that i can run up and over the lip of the 55 to the pump then to the tank. Tank is at about 5' head and would like to keep close to 1100 gph.

 

[JohnK]

It can be done.

You have to go up and over with the plumbing, and it has to be primed manually, but it is possible (but probably not ideal).

 

[steve214989]

priming it was one of my concerns. Also how much would going up and over the sump affect the pump? I was thinking if I made the intake very large it might be ok.

 

[saltwaterB]

Still, the issue is that you need a way prime it for the initial suction. It can definitely be done, but as JimmyJ said "not ideal" Plus unless you have a check valve involved, every time you lose power or turn off for maintenance you will have to re-prime. PITA

Are you sure the side panels on the 55 are tempered?

 

[madisonrose]

from what i understand
usually only the bottom is tempered and you can drill the sides

 

[reverendmaynard]

I just drilled a AGA 55 on the side panel for a dart. Some are tempered on all panes (Perfecto I think), but most are only on the bottom. Personally, if the tank I wanted to use for a sump was tempered, I'd get a different tank I could drill rather than try to go over the top. That's a recipe for a burned out pump, IMO.

 

[steve214989]

Im not sure about the sides. All I know is the info I got says that a AGA 55 is tempered glass. Doesnt say if only the bottom is or all sides. Anyone wanna try and drill it for me? I just finished sectioning it off 1/4 inch glass panels. Not the cleanest looking but very strong and functional. Would really like to go external to keep the heat and noise down.

 

[wrassefan]

I run my Iwaki over the top....only had to prime it the one time...even when I shut the pump off and restart, I've never had to reprime....I'll try and get a pic when I get a chance

 

[Jim Tansey]

If the pump can store enough water in the impeller housing and attached vertical tubing it's very possible it could restart and overcome the initial burp. My preference however would be to drill the side, most are not tempered.

Jim

 

[Arthur1]

Theres always a way lol. I have an idea on that one but as others have said, drill the side if possible. I'm not sure on the AGA as well I heard that the wally world 55s had all tempered sides now. An eheim or ocean runner would be a good internal pump if you decide to go that route instead of chancing to see if the glass is tempered. Don't be affraid to go the internal route lol. Just my 2 cents

 

[Psychographic]

I've done this before for someone. What I did was, at the top of the plumbing where it goes over the tank wall, drilled a small hole to fit a piece of rigid airline tubing (drill it TIGHT and STRAIGHT!), glued a small length of the rigid airline tube with PCV glue into the hole. Don't let it extend too far onto the tube an 1/8" past the inside wall should be plenty, once it dried I added some more glue around it to act as a fillet, then I connected a length of flexible airline with a valve inline. You will also need a ball valve after the pump.

To prime the pump, Close the ball valve on the return, open the air valve and suck the air out until you see water in the line, close the valve and you should be primed. Open the ball valve and turn on the pump.

You will not have to reprime it each time you kill the power, water will be trapped in the U shape of the tube, like a trap on a sink drain.

It worked fine, but if I could, I would drill the tank.

You can always do the polorized lense trick to see if it's tempered.

 

[Jim Tansey]

Not sure I follow 100%, what did you use to suck out the air, but the real problem is you will likely not be there when the pump needs a prime.

Jim

 

[maurod]

The pump should not need to be primed again, unless your sump empties. There will always be water in the u tube.

 

[Jim Tansey]

The water in the lift tube will seek the same level as the sump water level, leaving air space in the U tube going over the side of the sump when the pump turns off.

Jim

 

[NateHanson]

I drilled a 55 for my sump - no problems, but that was an older tank.

Before going through contortions with the plumbing, I'd get a pair of polarized lenses (sunglasses work) and check if the side pane is tempered. Then you can go from there.

 

[NateHanson]

The water in the lift tube will seek the same level as the sump water level, leaving air space in the U tube going over the side of the sump when the pump turns off.

Jim

If there's no air inlet at the top of the upside down U-tube, then that will remain full of water. Suction will keep that u-tube full. Just like a HOB overflow. As long as the sump water level doesn't drop and admit air, priming shouldn't be an issue.

That said, I'd see if I could just drill it as a first choice.

 

[Jim Tansey]

Nate,

I never heard that before, does it really work? I'll try it on my car...::

Jim

 

[NateHanson]

I'm definitely in the "theory-realm" Jim. I've never tried it, but an upside down vessel, with both ends submerged can't drain because there's no source of air to replace the water trying to get out. It's like filling a glass of water in a tub, and then lifting it part way out upside down. The water stays in the glass because of the atmospheric pressure on the tub is greater than the pressure at the top of the glass.

The thing I'd worry about is whether the water coming back down the return line when the pump stopped, might be moving fast enough to flush out the water from the u-tube. The pump impeller is probably enough of a flow restriction to prevent this, but if the water goes flying through there, it will be replaced by the air coming down the tube before it stops in the u-tube.

 

[Jim Tansey]

It's iffy at best that the lift would not fill with air.

But my real question was the sunglass thing, that's got to be the best kept secret in the aquarium industry, does it really work? That's what I want to try on my car.

Jim

 

[NateHanson]

As long as the intake was large enough and far enough below the surface, I'd think the fast flow in the lift tube would sweep any bubbles right out of there.

Anyways, about the sunglasses thing, it's the way the pros in the club do it, so it must work.