For those "complaining" of brown scum with IO

[dcforester1]

I have seen several people talk about brown residue with IO salt. I was wondering if these people were using translucent barrels? I have some in my make up water. Im wondering if its algae from some light going thru the barrel, just a thought. Im wondering if other getting this had barrels that allowed some light thru.
Thanks for your input,
Derek

 

[Bobbofin]

Nope, white buckets only used for two days. One to mix up and the other to change. You should have seen the layer of brown residue in Jay's gray barrels. It was aweful. I'll never use IO again after seeing that then experiencing it myself at home.

 

[Andy V]

I used to use IO and I would get the brown scum. I only have the orange Home Depot buckets.

 

[MikeG]

I get that in my 40 gallon brute barrel used to mix saltwater so it is definately mot light.

 

[coralcor]

i have the same thing in my red sea coral pro... looks like dirt on the tip and sides of the bucket...

 

[SharkLover]

A solution was posted on this link. I tried it and it works. The short of it is dose mg and calcium before adding your salt. then hours l8ter add your salt. For some odd reason if you add the salt first then dose the water it leaves a brown scum. I've tried this and it works.

water change husbandry & supplemental study

http://bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91207

 

[dcforester1]

A solution was posted on this link. I tried it and it works. The short of it is dose mg and calcium before adding your salt. then hours l8ter add your salt. For some odd reason if you add the salt first then dose the water it leaves a brown scum. I've tried this and it works.

water change husbandry & supplemental study

http://bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=91207

Just like holes were shot in my theory, yours has one as well. I didnt dose anything in it. My levels were high so I didnt add anything. I guess changing brands is the only sure fire way to take care of it.
Derek

 

[Joel A]

it happens.. are all of you heating your water? IIRC it has something to do with when the water gets heated and the salt is not completely mixed. Might be recalling misinformed information though, as i didn't follow this issue much?

As far as i know it's just ugly.. not detrimental to our tanks in any way.. DD H2Ocean had an issue with this too.. so did Seachem.

 

[stevenp]

+ 1 on adding supplements prior to adding salt.

If you allow the supplements to fully dilute before adding salt you will not get the brown scum and deposits.

IMO, (I'm no chemist) but the buildup caused by not adhering to this method means that the additives are not fully dissolving in the premix saltwater, and negatively affect the final product because they're building up on the vessel instead of being absorbed into the solution.

 

[stevenp]

it happens.. are all of you heating your water? IIRC it has something to do with when the water gets heated and the salt is not completely mixed. Might be recalling misinformed information though, as i didn't follow this issue much?

As far as i know it's just ugly.. not detrimental to our tanks in any way.. DD H2Ocean had an issue with this too.. so did Seachem.

I haven't found that heating the water makes any difference. It seems to be more of an issue of letting the supplements dissolve before adding salt, FME. Probably the same reasons why Randy and Greg recommend dissolving baking soda in RO instead of just tossing it in the tank?

 

[Leroy]

Hmm, for all the past 2 years I've been premixing my IO salt in a grey 55 gal heavy duty plastic barrel I've never had any issue or problem. I have it set for 45 gals of water only add 23 cups of salt turn on pump and mix. I've left it mixing for 2 weeks and at some point I turn on the heater then test the water and dose Alk, Ca and Mag to match my tank. The day before I water change I aerate the water. Some time during the summer I'll drag the barrel outside and wash it out with vinegar.

 

[Liam]

red sea coral pro and D+D H2o salt are both harvested from the dead sea area,they are known to be high in organics such as phosphate.
If AWT results are accurrate then phosphate/ nitrate in I/O are high also.

If you leave your salt in the mixing barrell for a while before use and the buildup gets worse i would say its definitely nutient driven

 

[willray]

I have used I/O from the beginning and have found that if I keep my barrels,mixing tanks,pumps,heaters....clean it does not happen.It was only when I allowed a little(mutiplies over time) bacteria/slime to build that it would happen and all it takes to get that going is say a pump,heater,even alittle water or whatever from the DT going into your mixing vessel w/o being cleaned.
Next time you do a water change look at and or feel the inside of you tank and you'll know what I'm referring to.I clean my barells,mixing tanks and such every 6 months.

 

[Liam]

I have used I/O from the beginning and have found that if I keep my barrels,mixing tanks,pumps,heaters....clean it does not happen.It was only when I allowed a little(mutiplies over time) bacteria/slime to build that it would happen and all it takes to get that going is say a pump,heater,even alittle water or whatever from the DT going into your mixing vessel w/o being cleaned.
Next time you do a water change look at and or feel the inside of you tank and you'll know what I'm referring to.I clean my barells,mixing tanks and such every 6 months.

but i think this is the issue,if you are mixing ro/di with a salt mix that contains zero (or very low nutrient levels) you should not get any build up to clean off.

Also,are people keeping lids on their barrels,and keeping them out of the light

edit i think i read a little more carefully the second time

you are correct that nutrients could be being intruduced from other area's is a possible cause.

I always refill my mixing vessel with ro/di immediately,if you do not do this you can get a crust on the inside of the barrel where the left over salty water dries,if this is left open to air all kinds of inpurities could be absorbed.
That is why i refill mine right away and then seal it until i am ready to make the next batch.

 

[dcforester1]

I use a white 55gal drum (thanks smartfish), it is sealed at the top, except for a 4in hole. The barrel is usually dry, because it been acouple of weeks between WC. I fill it up from the RO unit (0TDS), add the salt, and warm it up, with a PH in it. The salt did sit for a week, and possible some tankwater got in there, but just acouple drops. The barrels sits in the corner in the inside of the room, no windows close by. I have no ill effects, but just curious.

 

[Mcubed]

I've been using Reef Crystals and have the same brown scum experience. I mix up in brute containers. I Bring my RO/DI water up to temp and fully aerated before adding salt. If I let it mix for under 24hours I cant see any of the brown crap. If i delay doing a water change and let it sit (still heated and aerated) a few days; I will start to se the sides of the container, heater, and power head covered in brown crap. If I shine a flashlight in the water I can also see a heavy amount of brown particles in suspension, being circulated around. Almost as if some chemical of a compound in the salt mix came out of solution (if thats possible). Or a new compound is being formed.

In my last salt bucket I found two small clumps of same colored brown material. One was .25" the other almost .5" in diamter. I wish I had save them. I picked them out. I keep using my remaining salt because I don't see it having any effect on water clarity after a water change. That being said; I bought a bucket of Coralife to try once my RC runs out.

 

[gobyvin]

Google the problem - search - Brown Scum in Reef Crystals salt water - and you will find the reefkeeping magazine article that I believe explains this "problem" I use RC with RODI 0TDS in Brute Barrels and have the same experience, worsening after the initial mix. I add salt to a full tub of water and then heat and mix with a powerhead overnight and then shutdown until needed. The night before I plug in heat and pumps again and do a change. I think Randy's experiment and pictures in this article explain the precipitation of CaCO3 that we see. He didn't do a full blown experiment with independent replicates or anything rigorously scientific but he did use some nice chemist CSI techniques. I am a biologist and this article reminds me of college chem labs. So, in a nutshell I am fairly certain it is as Randy describes. Here is the link. Basically, it boils down to solubility of the salt mix components and the proportions that the mix manufacturer uses. Some are probably better than others but they are all basically the same... they are not NSW. If they were like NSW this stuff (scum) would be rare.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.php

Great read. Not too boring and a great description of things we all should pay attention to as aquarists that play chemist with live creatures as part of the experiment.

 

[Liam]

Would'nt calcium carbonate be white?
I don't doubt some of the dried residue on the barrel is calcium carbonate,but would that explain the brown film whilst the barrel is still full.

Another thought,could it be due to silicates in the salt mix?

 

[JasonandRay]

I just throw a cheap hob filter with a sponge and it gets it out. I'm disappointed because the 160 bucket of rc only makes about 100 gallons of water to 1.026

 

[gobie1313]

i've been using I/O for 2 years and never had a problem. I have a spare shower where i run the r/o water into a 30 gal rubber maid tub, with a power head constantly on, and a heater.with no natural sun light.