Coral reef article - Dire prediction for world's coral reefs

[Gina McReeferson]

I didn't say recycling is a myth, I said curbside recycling is a fool's errand...

Maybe if people were actually serious about doing something, they could sort and bring their recyclables to a central location for pickup, but who wants to work that hard, right? Try having someone suggest getting rid of curbside pickup in favor of centralized drop off, lol, a joke, everyone complains, noone does anything to make something real happen.

Commercial mandatory recyling? You need not make make it mandatory for most businesses to recycle. Most industries profit from recycling, or at least cut losses through cutting down on waste, they have large volumes of recyclable materials all located in one spot, making it not only environmentally conscious, but fiscally prudent as well. If everyone in your town brought their alluminum cans to one spot in the city, not only would they help the environment, they would add revenue to their municipality, but noone is going to do that, that is the kicker. Stimpy has the right attitude and apparent motivation, if only everyone had that, and applied it in the right direction, maybe we might get something done.

-Dave

 

[Moe_K]

I didn't say recycling is a myth, I said curbside recycling is a fool's errand...

Maybe if people were actually serious about doing something, they could sort and bring their recyclables to a central location for pickup, but who wants to work that hard, right? Try having someone suggest getting rid of curbside pickup in favor of centralized drop off, lol, a joke, everyone complains, noone does anything to make something real happen.

Commercial mandatory recyling? You need not make make it mandatory for most businesses to recycle. Most industries profit from recycling, or at least cut losses through cutting down on waste, they have large volumes of recyclable materials all located in one spot, making it not only environmentally conscious, but fiscally prudent as well. If everyone in your town brought their alluminum cans to one spot in the city, not only would they help the environment, they would add revenue to their municipality, but noone is going to do that, that is the kicker. Stimpy has the right attitude and apparent motivation, if only everyone had that, and applied it in the right direction, maybe we might get something done.

-Dave

My town motivates me to recycle.
They charge me for every bag of trash I throw away.
Recycling is free. They have dumpsters for paper, plastic, etc.
If I separate the plastics and paper from the trash, I fill less bags, and thus have to pay less.
They recycle the plastic, paper, metals, wood, carboard, and all that.

 

[Greg Hiller]

>What do we hope to gain by reversing the damage done? Is the goal to set the reefs back to expanding? <

In my opinion we should try in the first place to just stop the damage. We have to stabilize CO2 emissions to keep the warming from getting completely out of control, and then slowly move to a sustainable energy generation method. One that on a net basis does not produce more CO2. We all plan (or hope, or maybe I watched too many Star Trek episodes) that the human presence on this planet will be here for a long, long time. We have to develop technologies that long term have a neutral effect on the planet as a whole. I tend to be an optimistic guy, and as long as the planet's population stabilizes (and it looks like it will) I think that technology will get us out of many of our current problems. The question is, in the meantime, before we wise up and develop more sustainable ways of managing the resources on the planet, how much damage will we have done. It's a drag to think about all the extinct species, and how (for the most part) you cannot bring them back.

>Is the goal to set the reefs back to expanding?<

If you can learn enough about what is the biggest problem when mass bleaching occurs, you might be able to protect small pockets of reef all over the world (I believe some have tried to shade patches of the reef when the water temps get really high for short duration, a few days or weeks). Then, in a few decades, or maybe even a few hundred years, when we have the climate back under control, those protected areas of reef could seed the surrounding areas.

 

[BOSTONBAKEDBEAN]

ok ok I spent hours .im gona keep searching for it. cause I got a bit of ocd. couldn't find it yet. I've read an article that there is hope. in figie Australia ect there beginning to see the tropical fish and seedling corals further north/ south where they've never been before. there going to cooler waters. there was even a report on fox that they found a live lion fish around here. <they think someone released it. but! that why im in the hobbies. was going to be a marine biologist but it was to depressing a carrer. and that why I have a tank cause in a few years its going to be the only place coral exists..

 

[RobboT]

I didn't say recycling is a myth, I said curbside recycling is a fool's errand...
-Dave

Sorry didnt mean to put words in your mouth . . . it seemed that you felt though that the current way we recycle really does more harm than good in which case the idea that recycling is good for the environment would be a myth

Again sorry to put words in your mouth, not my intention and in fact I really dont think recycling is a total waste just a great concept turned a little awry.

 

[me2003]

Penn & Teller as a reference that is pretty desperate. I have watch several of their programs and they leave out many inconvient facts. As with
John Stossel's Myths and 'Stupid in America', there are important issues
that should be addressed. This does not make the entire process bad.
Recycling has its issues. The best part of the program is they make you pay for the nonrecyclable material. Hopefully It will get expensive enough that you question about junk mail and product packaging. Landfill have many issues even if you line them with plastic and clay. They have built golf course and baseball fields on them but they still leak polluted water and give off gases.
In Europe, they are requiring businesses to recycle. This has caused them to change. I find it interesting that companies in manufacturing in Asia are adjusting to this customer demand and we are whining about it. Our economy is a consumer/service economy. Trash is probably our largest
product. We have tried to export it but other countries are no longer interested. What little else we manufacture may end up only being usable in the US.

 

[Stimpy]

I have to say I may have opened up a can of worms,
BUT put-em on our hook and line, Re-cycled, Fresh fish, NO Packaging.

You all have great input and Not so off reef subject,
To save our reefs, depleted fish stocks, waterways, backyards, and the Blue Marble, This sp. <WE> have to.

NO Lectures, Consider 50yrs ago,
food waste = to the garden/compost
outhouse = fertelizer, Yum
55g drum under the gutter, Fresh water, no RO/DI needed.
NOT much else, everything bio

Today even 80-85% can be recycled at home. 1/2 bag per house to fills.
Billions in taxes saved on treatment plant etc.
Billions saved on water, no pumping out our wetlands (ie: everglades)
ETC...ETC...ETC. its up to we the people
as our elected ones own stock in the plants probibly and commercial dont care,their the worst.

Today, Look at the Crown of Thorn Starfish DECAMATING So America and Australia reefs. Consensus, delta runoff of farm ferelizers to reefs (maybe organic craze will work)

This is getting too head-y, its just so easy IF anyone CARES.

another beer and this gets too heavy, long, and unreadable.

I also REFUSE to purchase wild livesock, Boston Reefer fraggers is the way to go.. If you cant get acquacultured, dont hurt the reef.

 

[Stimpy]

PS
PS
PS

When the damn clerk at the store....

Puts your Pack of gum in a 3G plastic bag....

SAY NO THANKS

put it in your pocket...

 

[RichConley]

Just something to think about, I read this a while ago so it is not fresh in my head but if you like I will track it down and give more concrete facts.

Roadside recycling could be more harm than good for the environment...

More pollution is created through collection activities for residential recycling than is prevented. Through the emmisions of the collection vehicles and the waste created by their maintenance. A truly beneficial recycling program would require more initiative on the part of the people and a genuine effort, the current system is a fool's errand.

The amount of money spent on such activities could provide much greater benefit through other initiatives, it is however a very popular political item, and God help the politician that suggests taking money away from the household recycling efforts and putting them into something actually "effective". Those hauling companies aren't complaining of course...

Often when recycling is argued, people point to EPA studies showing shrinking landfill capacity. The EPA has however acknowledged that their studies were flawed, the statistics they used were based on the number of operating landfills and not their capacities, it has since been found that landfill capacity is actually growing everyday rather than shrinking as the EPA studies had originally suggested.

All I can remember for now, maybe give you some more after this Mai-tai wears off.

-Dave

Dave/Gina, I'd suggest that a centralized drop off point would increase waste even more. One truck running a route cant produce more waste than everyone in a town driving back and forth to their waste/dump center.

 

[RobboT]

Honestly I'm not really that concerned about the recycling issue when it comes to household paper and plastics waste. While I consider it to be an issue I'm a tackle the big things first kind of person. I think the issues of water, sewer, electricity and transportation need to be solved first. If we can find more efficient ways to provide those things to people with less burden on natural resources that to me is the way to start down the path to extending our stay on this planet.

Population increase alone is going to continue to exert serious pressure on the environment. Im not so optimistic that it will stabilize but even if it does they dont call them developing countries for nothing and those countries want better water, sewer, power and transportation too. That means either our current technology goes to them as we develop new ideas or someone needs to finance providing new technology to everyone. Bottom line is we've got a tough row to hoe We cant go back to the good old days. Outhouses and downspout rain collectors dont work very well in 15 story apartment complexes But there is technology that can improve things and if we'd put some research dollars to those things I bet we'd be surprised what is possible.

Next years bonus I guess Im buying a hybrid . . . or training myself to bike 40 miles each way to work.

 

[Matt L.]

There are things that everyone can do to start making a difference. They seem like small things, but when you add them up over a large number of people, they can make a difference.

I am convinced that the future will require all of us to change our ways.

Things you can do:

• Recycle as much as possilbe.
• When a lightbulb burns out in your house, replace it with one of those long-life fluorescent bulbs that use 25% the electricity.
• Avoid grocery bags whenever possible. Switch to those reusable bags.
• Keep the thermostat down in the winter and try to avoid AC in the summer as much as possible.
• Look into solar panels.
• Avoid vehicles of unnecessary size or poor mileage.
• Try to live as close to work as possible. Ride your bike or a motor bike if possible.
• Collect rainwater in rain barrles and use it for watering (or RO/DI)
• Try public transportation if possible.

I know that reefkeeping is the white elephant in the room, consuming so much electricty. I got into this hobby so long ago, I wasn't climate conscious back then. I advocate dividing your life into different areas and work on each little area. Keep the reef separate. Sure, you could argue that what good do all of the above do if you are running a reef. My argument is that every thing you can do helps, and when you multiply that by everybody, then you make a difference. The above are all things that I have started doing in the past year.

Matt

 

[RichConley]

Environmentally, public transportation drives me nuts. To get from Walpole to boston, its $2 to park in Walpole, $4 each way on the Commuter rail, $1.25 each way on the T. Thats $12.50 a day to ride the train to work. Its a 15 mile drive. Its cheaper, and quicker to drive an SUV to work than it is to take public transportation. Theres something fundamentaly wrong with that... theyre raising T prices again this year too.... to pay for all these stupid new turnstiles and paper tickets that did nothing but cause problems.



Matt, as to reefkeeping, my tank runs on about $35 worth of electricity a month, and I could run a 120+ on the equipment. It doesnt have to be as bad as people think. I have to feel that me driving a compact car, and spending $35 a month in extra E has less of an effect on the environment than me driving a bigger car and not having a tank.

 

[Stimpy]

Rich, You forgot the 20-40$$$$$ per day to park the damn thing in town. or more. Boston is closing many of the public garages and lots to force T and carpooling. I'm in the sign business and have been involved in a number of closings. SO day parking may go up to 40-100/day with the continued loss of spaces. Supply and Demand you know...

 

[RichConley]

Rich, You forgot the 20-40$$$$$ per day to park the damn thing in town. or more. Boston is closing many of the public garages and lots to force T and carpooling. I'm in the sign business and have been involved in a number of closings. SO day parking may go up to 40-100/day with the continued loss of spaces. Supply and Demand you know...

Right, but I had a parking pass that costs me $100 per semester, so that wasnt a concern. In most places, its about $12 a day to park (most places that have their own garages)


If boston wants people to take the T, they should expand the subway out into somerville, etc, and make the price reasonable. The MBTA was profitable 10 years ago at $.85 to ride... its not now, at $1.25 to ride. Why? Repeated stupid decisions: The new greenline cars hold less people than the old ones. The new turnstiles cause all sorts of extra waste. (ticket stubs everywhere).


Again? Why does the T shut off at 12:30? That forces thousands of people a night to drive into the city, and then drive home after going to bars,clubs,etc. They want to help, make the T more useful.

 

[NateHanson]

My town motivates me to recycle.
They charge me for every bag of trash I throw away.
Recycling is free. They have dumpsters for paper, plastic, etc.
If I separate the plastics and paper from the trash, I fill less bags, and thus have to pay less.
They recycle the plastic, paper, metals, wood, carboard, and all that.

Exactly the same here. We get curbside pickup of trash only, but it costs $2/bag. We fill less than a bag a week by recycling the rest for free at the dump.

 

[RobboT]

They want to help, make the T more useful.

I agree 100% on this. My wife is from Tokyo and Im always amazed when we go to visit at how far I can go without needing a car. Even the very small towns have some from of train/trolley. I live in Canton and work in Marlboro, I have no option other than driving. I'd love to be able to take a train. Even if it took a little more time, if it was cost equivalent I'd do it.