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custom rimless starphire aquarium
- Thread starter nitr8
- Start date
OP
OP
nitr8
Non-member
i didn't know there was such a thing as a stock rimless tank. I'm looking for a 150g cube. any suggestions as to where i can purchase this? i seen marineland has a 150cube with a starphire front but it wasnt rimless.....
sciknen
$20.00 PEOPLE, COME ON.
I've seen a 230 rimless cube on R2R.
Tough choices you have.
1. Get it built. Looking at a couple grand. Plenty great builders around.
2. Build it yourself. A lot cheaper. And funner.
You can find a calculator online to see what thickness.
Dimension would help a lot.
Steve
Tough choices you have.
1. Get it built. Looking at a couple grand. Plenty great builders around.
2. Build it yourself. A lot cheaper. And funner.
You can find a calculator online to see what thickness.
Dimension would help a lot.
Steve
The problem is that rimless tanks have everything about physics working against them, so they have to be massively overbuilt to be safe. Normal tanks go with a minimum 3.8 saftey factor, rimless should be double that so 7.6 saftey factor.
A 24x24x24" cube just makes it with 1/2" glass. The glass thickness goes up with increased depth, AND increased length of the longest part of the tank. To build a 150G cube will take some beefy glass, and an experienced hand to built IMO.
Edit, adding numbers;
So for @ 150G cube you're looking at about 34x34x34". At a 7.6 saftey factor the caculator I have says you would need 20.18mm /.795" glass. IIRC the next closest thickness glass that I have heard of being available is 22mm. That's pretty beefy.
Not saying that it's impossible, but definately offering caution that it would be no small project, and one I would not want to do myself without at least having a few smaller practice tanks under my belt.
As for builders, CS aka "Randoma" has been known to build tanks for people, but last I spoke with him he was moving to a smaller place where he wouldn't have the space to be building tanks, and I think he may have temporarily left the hobby.
Dave Mcpresident built his 560, but I doubt he's taking on projects for anyone these days.
A few others in the club have made their own tanks, but I don't know of a local professional tank builder.
Of course there is always the glass cages option, but their reputation is for lousy customer service, sloppy builds, and numerous stories of tanks that have failed.
Next up is miracles in glass if you don't mind paying for premium work and shipping from canada.
A 24x24x24" cube just makes it with 1/2" glass. The glass thickness goes up with increased depth, AND increased length of the longest part of the tank. To build a 150G cube will take some beefy glass, and an experienced hand to built IMO.
Edit, adding numbers;
So for @ 150G cube you're looking at about 34x34x34". At a 7.6 saftey factor the caculator I have says you would need 20.18mm /.795" glass. IIRC the next closest thickness glass that I have heard of being available is 22mm. That's pretty beefy.
Not saying that it's impossible, but definately offering caution that it would be no small project, and one I would not want to do myself without at least having a few smaller practice tanks under my belt.
As for builders, CS aka "Randoma" has been known to build tanks for people, but last I spoke with him he was moving to a smaller place where he wouldn't have the space to be building tanks, and I think he may have temporarily left the hobby.
Dave Mcpresident built his 560, but I doubt he's taking on projects for anyone these days.
A few others in the club have made their own tanks, but I don't know of a local professional tank builder.
Of course there is always the glass cages option, but their reputation is for lousy customer service, sloppy builds, and numerous stories of tanks that have failed.
Next up is miracles in glass if you don't mind paying for premium work and shipping from canada.
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sciknen
$20.00 PEOPLE, COME ON.
Here you go bud.. Check out Club Cube on R2R.. They will send you in the right direction.
http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/club-cube/46965-my-cubesque-240-a.html
http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/club-cube/46128-cjtabares-150-gal-36x36x27-tank-progress.html
That 2nd link is a person who is on here as well.
http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/club-cube/46965-my-cubesque-240-a.html
http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/club-cube/46128-cjtabares-150-gal-36x36x27-tank-progress.html
That 2nd link is a person who is on here as well.
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delta
Impatient Reefer
I have seen an new glass cages tank fall part in someones hands. The silicone on the euro bracing came right off. But on a 380 gallon tank it shouldn't be anything to worry about should it?
33"x33"x33" would be 155.6gals, given it is a cube the dimensions are pretty easy to guess
33"x33"x33" would be 155.6gals, given it is a cube the dimensions are pretty easy to guess
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Neither of those tanks are actually cubes. The first is a half cube, and the second is about 2/3 cube. Also Christopher's tank is a marineland tank, not a DIY.
If we are talking about an actual cube, the height is what drives the glass thickness up. Cut the height by 1/2 or 1/3 will make a big difference in the glass thickness needed.
delta
Impatient Reefer
Very true height is the controlling factor. To often people will just quote a number they have seen on a "close enough" tank without doing the necessary math, which could be tragic.
I see it all too often with recommendations for modification on floor supports to hold the weight of larger tanks. Many time the advice given is completely incorrect.
Funny many build tank stand that will hold up a house, then they do not reinforce the floor properly
This reminds me I need to discuss that very issue(floor support) with someone pushing a tank raising. The floor support issue has never come up
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sciknen
$20.00 PEOPLE, COME ON.
Well a tank failing in my mind is busted seam while full.. Haven't seen that..A tank doesn't have to be pretty to work well.
And i guess in my mind when I think of a cube its not an exact cube. Most of the tanks that are in Club Cube are not exact cubes i guess. I think of a tank whose length and width is the same.
Plus I don't think anyone wants a 33" tall tank other than me. I wanted a 36" for a bit. I would guess it is like 36x36x24. I think that's 150g.
And i guess in my mind when I think of a cube its not an exact cube. Most of the tanks that are in Club Cube are not exact cubes i guess. I think of a tank whose length and width is the same.
Plus I don't think anyone wants a 33" tall tank other than me. I wanted a 36" for a bit. I would guess it is like 36x36x24. I think that's 150g.
That makes a big difference Steve. 36x36x24 @7.6 SF would need 16.91mm glass min. Now keep in mind that you have to round up to the next available thickness, so your 2/3 cube could easily be built with 3/4", while the actual 150 cube would need more like 1" glass. (no I haven't gotten around to trying to figure out all the different thicknesses that are available, but I'm pretty sure the options are somewhat limiting)
Figure in deflection and sealing surface differences and these details could be the difference between a nice tank, and that total seam failure you mentioned.
Back to the point though, the OP was asking about having a tank built, not building one. Sorry for the derail, my bad
Figure in deflection and sealing surface differences and these details could be the difference between a nice tank, and that total seam failure you mentioned.
Back to the point though, the OP was asking about having a tank built, not building one. Sorry for the derail, my bad
OP
OP
nitr8
Non-member
http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=OrderForm&sProdID=RLAQ_140Square
This is what I think I may go with. Not exactly a cube but the website says they can alter the dimensions of the tank you choose so I may make the height 27''. I'll have to see how much of a difference it makes in the price and weather or not 3'' is worth it. I am also thinking about having the holes drilled in the back pain of glass towards the top rather than in the bottom pain of glass. Can anyone explain to me the benefits of a durso style overflow verses just drilling holes in the back pain of glass?
This is what I think I may go with. Not exactly a cube but the website says they can alter the dimensions of the tank you choose so I may make the height 27''. I'll have to see how much of a difference it makes in the price and weather or not 3'' is worth it. I am also thinking about having the holes drilled in the back pain of glass towards the top rather than in the bottom pain of glass. Can anyone explain to me the benefits of a durso style overflow verses just drilling holes in the back pain of glass?
Just beware that glass cages has a very mixed reputation. They are known for sloppy but solid work. There are also some pretty scary horror stories out there as well. Definately an option, but don't expect a miracles tank
On the overflow, lets start with some lingo;
-surface skim, this is how thin of a layer of water the drain actually skims from the surface. This is important because the same pollutants that protien skimmers remove, are attracted to the surface of the water. A good surface skim means all of this goes to the skimmer, and you don't end up with a nasty film covering the surface of the water in your tank.
-Overflow box, a glass or plastic box that surrounds a drain
-standpipe, a pipe that extends up from a drain. keeps water from draining any lower than the top of the pipe
-Duroso (or stockman), modifications on the simple standpipe. These vent air in, but actually draw the water from just below the surface so you get FAR less noise than you would with a simple standpipe. Duroso/stockman creates a bit of a partial siphion because only a limited amount of air can be drawn in, but enough that a full siphion will not happen.
Now plusses and minuses with different drains/drain systems
*straight holes in the back of the tank
-will work, but will get very little or no surface skim
-will never be quiet unless you use huge holes and very slow flow, may still not be very quiet
-when power goes off, these often drain the tank down more than you may like
-will mix a lot of air/bubbles into the water being drained
*Basic overflow box
-will set the water level in the display (good thing)
-allows much better surface skim, how good depends on several design factors
-can be used around a simple hole in the back, a standpipe, or a duroso
*Duroso in an overflow box
-surface skim as above
-the duroso quiets the drain some, while also increasing the flow some by having a partial siphion
-will still be noisy, but not as bad as an open standpipe
-will mix a lot of air/water into the water being drained.
Improvments over the simple hole, or standpipe, or duroso in a box;
*"Herbie drain"
-located in an overflow box
-Uses 2 same sized holes, each with a standpipe attached inside the overflow box
-one hole is a dry back up that will have no water flowing through it, but can handle 100% of the flow if the siphion gets blocked
-second hole is a full siphion drawing water from below the surface, in the overflow box
-second hole/full siphion is restricted with a gate valve near the sump. valve slows flow so that the water level in the overflow rises above the standpipe on this drain, but stays below the slightly taller standpipe on the back up drain
-runs silent and mixes no air into the draining water, so no bubbles in the sump.
-needs occasional slight adjustments of the gate valve to keep it running just right.
-nearly failsafe since there is a back up capable of handling 100% of the flow............ BUT two perfectly sized and placed, large snails at the same time, could possibly cause a flood. Not likely, but one of two reasons why the "Bean" was thought up.
*"Bean overflow"
-Same as "Herbie" EXCEPT uses a third drain hole.
-hole one is a dry drain just like Herbie
-hole two is a full siphion restricted with a gate valve just like Herbie
-hole three is a duroso that is set in between the heights of the standpipes on hole one and two. It is arranged so that if the water level rises it's air inlet hole becomes submerged turning it into a full siphion
-everything is adjusted with the gate valve so that 98% of the water goes down the siphion, 2% gently trickles down the duroso, and the dry back up is dry.
-If a massive snail blocks the sipion, THEN another massive snail blocks the back up, the duroso will still be able to handle 100% of the flow.
-silent, as failsafe as you can get, and virtually no bubbles to the sump.
On the overflow, lets start with some lingo;
-surface skim, this is how thin of a layer of water the drain actually skims from the surface. This is important because the same pollutants that protien skimmers remove, are attracted to the surface of the water. A good surface skim means all of this goes to the skimmer, and you don't end up with a nasty film covering the surface of the water in your tank.
-Overflow box, a glass or plastic box that surrounds a drain
-standpipe, a pipe that extends up from a drain. keeps water from draining any lower than the top of the pipe
-Duroso (or stockman), modifications on the simple standpipe. These vent air in, but actually draw the water from just below the surface so you get FAR less noise than you would with a simple standpipe. Duroso/stockman creates a bit of a partial siphion because only a limited amount of air can be drawn in, but enough that a full siphion will not happen.
Now plusses and minuses with different drains/drain systems
*straight holes in the back of the tank
-will work, but will get very little or no surface skim
-will never be quiet unless you use huge holes and very slow flow, may still not be very quiet
-when power goes off, these often drain the tank down more than you may like
-will mix a lot of air/bubbles into the water being drained
*Basic overflow box
-will set the water level in the display (good thing)
-allows much better surface skim, how good depends on several design factors
-can be used around a simple hole in the back, a standpipe, or a duroso
*Duroso in an overflow box
-surface skim as above
-the duroso quiets the drain some, while also increasing the flow some by having a partial siphion
-will still be noisy, but not as bad as an open standpipe
-will mix a lot of air/water into the water being drained.
Improvments over the simple hole, or standpipe, or duroso in a box;
*"Herbie drain"
-located in an overflow box
-Uses 2 same sized holes, each with a standpipe attached inside the overflow box
-one hole is a dry back up that will have no water flowing through it, but can handle 100% of the flow if the siphion gets blocked
-second hole is a full siphion drawing water from below the surface, in the overflow box
-second hole/full siphion is restricted with a gate valve near the sump. valve slows flow so that the water level in the overflow rises above the standpipe on this drain, but stays below the slightly taller standpipe on the back up drain
-runs silent and mixes no air into the draining water, so no bubbles in the sump.
-needs occasional slight adjustments of the gate valve to keep it running just right.
-nearly failsafe since there is a back up capable of handling 100% of the flow............ BUT two perfectly sized and placed, large snails at the same time, could possibly cause a flood. Not likely, but one of two reasons why the "Bean" was thought up.
*"Bean overflow"
-Same as "Herbie" EXCEPT uses a third drain hole.
-hole one is a dry drain just like Herbie
-hole two is a full siphion restricted with a gate valve just like Herbie
-hole three is a duroso that is set in between the heights of the standpipes on hole one and two. It is arranged so that if the water level rises it's air inlet hole becomes submerged turning it into a full siphion
-everything is adjusted with the gate valve so that 98% of the water goes down the siphion, 2% gently trickles down the duroso, and the dry back up is dry.
-If a massive snail blocks the sipion, THEN another massive snail blocks the back up, the duroso will still be able to handle 100% of the flow.
-silent, as failsafe as you can get, and virtually no bubbles to the sump.
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It's funny how people always complain about GC in these threads, but they always seems to be people who have never actually dealt with GC in any way.
I love my GC tank. Built to my specifications and the starphire front panel is awesome. The thing is built like a tank, although then again it should be since it is euro-braced.
I love my GC tank. Built to my specifications and the starphire front panel is awesome. The thing is built like a tank, although then again it should be since it is euro-braced.
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