Daily KH drop

[cilyjr]

I may be getting this backwards...let me do more reading...

Don't worry about. You seem upset over the matter I will leave the thread..sorry to bother you

 

[delta]

Concentrate on the trifactor Ca, Alk and Mg let everything else fall where it may.

Everything is neutralized by maintaining stable parameters. If you do not stabilize your controlling factors, measuring indicators will only further screw your assessment of the situation.

You shouldn't have a drop in Alk in an optimal situation. But when you dose once a day and your demand is 2DKH/day it will drop 2DKH/day and that has nothing to do with CO2, PH, salinity or temp.

 

[Moe_K]

Like Delta wrote in the last line there, if you have high demand for alk (which should be coupled with a high demand for calcium), then you may want to consider switching from 2 part solutions to a calcium reactor.
Once dialed in, the calcium reactor would deliver the right amount of calcium + carbonate 24/7. Your levels would be stable. Your growth would be optimal.

Check your calcium a few times per day for a few days. Does it also dip like the alk? If not, I really doubt it's the coral causing the alk dip.

 

[reefstarter]

Never any need to be upset in threads , I think everyone is trying to convey their experiences only . there are sooo many ways of doing this . and a million variables . what works for you may not work for someone else . depends on the corals in tank , fish kept , how much sand or lack of , lighting types and schedules , salinity , temp etc etc etc etc . no single tank is the same as another . we Can however rely on chemistry and science to be near constants the rest is trial and error .

 

[SquareFace]

Never any need to be upset in threads , I think everyone is trying to convey their experiences only . there are sooo many ways of doing this . and a million variables . what works for you may not work for someone else . depends on the corals in tank , fish kept , how much sand or lack of , lighting types and schedules , salinity , temp etc etc etc etc . no single tank is the same as another . we Can however rely on chemistry and science to be near constants the rest is trial and error .

I agree that every tank is different. But, the differences must have some limits. We are trying to simulate a natural reef environment as much as possible for the health of the animals we are trying to keep. These animals can be kept in a different ranges of a lot of different aspect on this hobby. When I ask reefers how much alkalinity drop they experience daily, I'm expecting to get different answers because every tank is different. Then, if I get answers all the way from 0.2 dkh to 1 dkh and nobody else is losing over 2 dkh a day, like me, I can assume that something is most likely wrong.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[P-Nut]

Mine drops around 2dkh.

My ALK is around 10, and calcium is around 450.

I have my dosing figured out so I only measure alk once per month and sometimes I have to add 1 minute to the doser.

If you buy a clam, it will make a big difference, so you will need to measure several times to get it adjusted.

I wouldn't keep alk or Cal High hoping corals would grow faster. A Metal Halide will get that done. Put them under MH and it's like steroids. As long as your Alk is around 9 and calcium around 420-450 you should be good to go, just keep it stable.

 

[dannyp02908]

well that's one of those things where there wouldn't be the limit you mention. Someone with a softie dominated tank (zoas/palys, leathers, mushrooms, cloves) would likely only see alk/cal move a tiny bit daily whereas someone with an SPS dominated tank would see more towards the numbers you see. Also, coralline will eat up ca/alk in a healthy aquarium as would keeping clams. Too many factors to say that there should be some limits. While we all strive to maintain stable parameters to match the natural environment, it requires differing amounts of effort from everybody depending on the choice of livestock we choose to keep.

 

[delta]

I agree that every tank is different. But, the differences must have some limits. We are trying to simulate a natural reef environment as much as possible for the health of the animals we are trying to keep. These animals can be kept in a different ranges of a lot of different aspect on this hobby. When I ask reefers how much alkalinity drop they experience daily, I'm expecting to get different answers because every tank is different. Then, if I get answers all the way from 0.2 dkh to 1 dkh and nobody else is losing over 2 dkh a day, like me, I can assume that something is most likely wrong.

No it is 100% tank specific. If the dip is due to the fact you dose once a day then you have your answer you usage is 2DKH. There is no other way to decipher your problem than to look at the details of your tank. No one else's tank and maintenance can help you with this particular issue it is 100% tank specific but you haven;t, in 3 threads mind you, clearly laid out you dosing regiment.

And in this case the answer shouldn't be different as it shouldn't be dropping the Ca, Alk and Mg should remain as steady as possible. However until you lay out how you are dosing you will continue to get mixed messages, as if you are dosing once a day your drop will be your tank usage for the day vs dosing over the entire day and not meeting your daily needs.

 

[SquareFace]

Mine drops around 2dkh.

My ALK is around 10, and calcium is around 450.

I have my dosing figured out so I only measure alk once per month and sometimes I have to add 1 minute to the doser.

If you buy a clam, it will make a big difference, so you will need to measure several times to get it adjusted.

I wouldn't keep alk or Cal High hoping corals would grow faster. A Metal Halide will get that done. Put them under MH and it's like steroids. As long as your Alk is around 9 and calcium around 420-450 you should be good to go, just keep it stable.

Thanks for answering. Your answer was very helpful.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SquareFace]

No it is 100% tank specific. If the dip is due to the fact you dose once a day then you have your answer you usage is 2DKH. There is no other way to decipher your problem than to look at the details of your tank. No one else's tank and maintenance can help you with this particular issue it is 100% tank specific but you haven;t, in 3 threads mind you, clearly laid out you dosing regiment.

And in this case the answer shouldn't be different as it shouldn't be dropping the Ca, Alk and Mg should remain as steady as possible. However until you lay out how you are dosing you will continue to get mixed messages, as if you are dosing once a day your drop will be your tank usage for the day vs dosing over the entire day and not meeting your daily needs.

The question was: What kind of alkalinity drop do you experience on the daily bases? Some people answered that with no problem. Some others just refuse to answer a simple question saying that it doesn't matter to know about someone else's tank. I'm trying to gather data to analyze and see what could help or not. Nobody is forced to answer anything. I've been reef keeping for only 2 years. And since I started, I've been asking reefers about their tanks trying to understand what they do that may work for me. A lot of the information I gathered in 2 years helped. I don't know why people are so upset that I still want to know how much alkalinity drop they experience a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SquareFace]

Since every tank is different. In case it helps, here are some some details of my tank.

SPS DOMINATED TANK
Started in February 2014 (after a total loss).



EQUIPMENT:
-Display tank: 55 gallons (4" deep sand bed).
-Lighting: 2 x 54 watts T5 ATI (8 hrs a day) + 36 watts of Royal Blue Rapids LEDs (4hrs a day).
-Skimmer: Octopus Diablo SX 200.
-Power heads: 1 Vortech and 1 Koralia Magnum 7 - 2750GPH
-Return: 2 x Eheim 1250 Universal Pump (320 GPH)
-Refugium: 20 gallons (4" deep sand bed, live rock and chaeto)
-Coralife Chiller 1/10 HP.
-GFO & Carbon Reactor – BRS Dual.
-UV Sterilizer: Coralife Turbo-Twist (9 watts).
-Calcium dosing pump: BRS.
-Alkalinity dosing pump: BRS.
-Magnesium doser: DIY dripper.
-Auto top off system: BRS.
WATER PARAMETERS
Salinity: 1.026
Calcium: 420 ppm
Alkalinity: 10 dkh (average)
Magnesium: 1350 ppm
Phosphate: 0.04 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Potassium: 380 ppm
Iodine: 0.06 ppm
Iron: 0 ppm
Temperature: 78-80 F.
FEDING:
Fishes: once a day.
Corals: twice a week.
SUPPLEMENTATION:
Red Sea’s Reef Care Program.
ANIMALS:
1 Hippo Tang
1 Yellow Tang
1 Yellow Wrasse
1 Flame Angel
4 Ocellaris
1 Clam
SPS a bunch of corals (I don't know the names).
LPS a few corals (I don't know the names).
Softies: some mushrooms and zoas (I don't know the names).






SPS DOMINATED TANK
EQUIPMENT:
-Display tank: 55 gallons (4" deep sand bed).
-Lighting: 2 x 54 watts T5 ATI (8 hrs a day) + 36 watts of Royal Blue Rapids LEDs (4hrs a day).
-Skimmer: Octopus Diablo SX 200.
-Power heads: 1 Vortech and 1 Koralia Magnum 7 - 2750GPH
-Return: 2 x Eheim 1250 Universal Pump (320 GPH)
-Refugium: 20 gallons (4" deep sand bed, live rock and chaeto)
-Coralife Chiller 1/10 HP.
-GFO & Carbon Reactor – BRS Dual.
-UV Sterilizer: Coralife Turbo-Twist (9 watts).
-Calcium dosing pump: BRS.
-Alkalinity dosing pump: BRS.
-Magnesium doser: DIY dripper.
-Auto top off system: BRS.
WATER PARAMETERS
Salinity: 1.026
Calcium: 420 ppm
Alkalinity: 10 dkh (average)
Magnesium: 1350 ppm
Phosphate: 0.04 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Potassium: 380 ppm
Iodine: 0.06 ppm
Iron: 0 ppm
Temperature: 78-80 F.
FEDING:
Fishes: once a day.
Corals: twice a week.
SUPPLEMENTATION:
Red Sea’s Reef Care Program.
ANIMALS:
1 Hippo Tang
1 Yellow Tang
1 Yellow Wrasse
1 Flame Angel
4 Ocellaris
1 Clam
SPS a bunch of corals (I don't know the names).
LPS a few corals (I don't know the names).
Softies: some mushrooms and zoas (I don't know the names).

 

[saltwaterB]

what test kits are you using? I will assume Red Sea because that is he supplement system you are using.


We go through VERY different alk usage on our various systems.....
Most of the systems have normal usage that water changes maintain perfectly, but our growout system can go through 2dkh to 4dkh in any given day...and I dose alk twice a day and Calcium once to avoid swings. Now I will admit that my Magnesium levels are always low in that system, and that DOES have an effect on how much alk I have to dose. But, the inventory in that system changes quite a bit, along with the consumption from the Corals after being fragged...so it is a constant battle, I am very anti Calcium reactor, but due to the demand from that system I may have to go that route.
On my 79 Gal. Elos (mostly LPS), I go through about .6-.8 dkh per day, and dose it 3 times a week, and it is the only thing I dose to that system. But I do a 70% water change every Friday on that system, and it keeps everything else in check.

 

[delta]

The question was: What kind of alkalinity drop do you experience on the daily bases? Some people answered that with no problem. Some others just refuse to answer a simple question saying that it doesn't matter to know about someone else's tank. I'm trying to gather data to analyze and see what could help or not. Nobody is forced to answer anything. I've been reef keeping for only 2 years. And since I started, I've been asking reefers about their tanks trying to understand what they do that may work for me. A lot of the information I gathered in 2 years helped. I don't know why people are so upset that I still want to know how much alkalinity drop they experience a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The problem is not the interaction with you and believe me I am not upset, it is what the thread conveys to new reefers. They will not understand how simple balancing Alk Ca and MG is with a two part solution in a thread like this as it went off course like a train wreck.

You ask for information and clearly over the last few threads it shows you are having an issue stabilizing your parameter or having a full grasp of it(Still not clear which). However all people are trying to do is be helpful in getting you to a place where your tank is not dipping Alk 2dkh/day. Perspective accounts for a lot. No harm no foul but part of participating in a forum style venue.

 

[P-Nut]

I don't think your lights are enough. 2 T5 and 36W of LED for an SPS dominated tank is not much.

 

[dannyp02908]

^^ Agree.

 

[SquareFace]

I don't think your lights are enough. 2 T5 and 36W of LED for an SPS dominated tank is not much.

Thanks for the advice. I'm waiting for the PAR meter to be calibrated, so I can check the lights and have a better idea on how to upgrade them.


SPS DOMINATED TANK
EQUIPMENT:
-Display tank: 55 gallons (4" deep sand bed).
-Lighting: 2 x 54 watts T5 ATI (8 hrs a day) + 36 watts of Royal Blue Rapids LEDs (4hrs a day).
-Skimmer: Octopus Diablo SX 200.
-Power heads: 1 Vortech and 1 Koralia Magnum 7 - 2750GPH
-Return: 2 x Eheim 1250 Universal Pump (320 GPH)
-Refugium: 20 gallons (4" deep sand bed, live rock and chaeto)
-Coralife Chiller 1/10 HP.
-GFO & Carbon Reactor – BRS Dual.
-UV Sterilizer: Coralife Turbo-Twist (9 watts).
-Calcium dosing pump: BRS.
-Alkalinity dosing pump: BRS.
-Magnesium doser: DIY dripper.
-Auto top off system: BRS.
WATER PARAMETERS
Salinity: 1.026
Calcium: 420 ppm
Alkalinity: 10 dkh (average)
Magnesium: 1350 ppm
Phosphate: 0.04 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Potassium: 380 ppm
Iodine: 0.06 ppm
Iron: 0 ppm
Temperature: 78-80 F.
FEDING:
Fishes: once a day.
Corals: twice a week.
SUPPLEMENTATION:
Red Sea’s Reef Care Program.
ANIMALS:
1 Hippo Tang
1 Yellow Tang
1 Yellow Wrasse
1 Flame Angel
4 Ocellaris
1 Clam
SPS a bunch of corals (I don't know the names).
LPS a few corals (I don't know the names).
Softies: some mushrooms and zoas (I don't know the names).

 

[nemodan]

A Metal Halide will get that done. Put them under MH and it's like steroids. .

Ah !!!! .... Now I am going to spend some hours under the MH ........LOL

 

[P-Nut]

Thanks for the advice. I'm waiting for the PAR meter to be calibrated, so I can check the lights and have a better idea on how to upgrade them.


SPS DOMINATED TANK
EQUIPMENT:
-Display tank: 55 gallons (4" deep sand bed).
-Lighting: 2 x 54 watts T5 ATI (8 hrs a day) + 36 watts of Royal Blue Rapids LEDs (4hrs a day).
-Skimmer: Octopus Diablo SX 200.
-Power heads: 1 Vortech and 1 Koralia Magnum 7 - 2750GPH
-Return: 2 x Eheim 1250 Universal Pump (320 GPH)
-Refugium: 20 gallons (4" deep sand bed, live rock and chaeto)
-Coralife Chiller 1/10 HP.
-GFO & Carbon Reactor – BRS Dual.
-UV Sterilizer: Coralife Turbo-Twist (9 watts).
-Calcium dosing pump: BRS.
-Alkalinity dosing pump: BRS.
-Magnesium doser: DIY dripper.
-Auto top off system: BRS.
WATER PARAMETERS
Salinity: 1.026
Calcium: 420 ppm
Alkalinity: 10 dkh (average)
Magnesium: 1350 ppm
Phosphate: 0.04 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Potassium: 380 ppm
Iodine: 0.06 ppm
Iron: 0 ppm
Temperature: 78-80 F.
FEDING:
Fishes: once a day.
Corals: twice a week.
SUPPLEMENTATION:
Red Sea’s Reef Care Program.
ANIMALS:
1 Hippo Tang
1 Yellow Tang
1 Yellow Wrasse
1 Flame Angel
4 Ocellaris
1 Clam
SPS a bunch of corals (I don't know the names).
LPS a few corals (I don't know the names).
Softies: some mushrooms and zoas (I don't know the names).

As an example: I think that 4 ATI over a 40 breeder is just enough. 6 ATI would be much better.

Your tank is deeper than a 40 breeder.

I threw a 150 MH (12K) on a 10 gallon tank and so far haven't found coral that hated it (except for mushrooms). The 150 MH is 7" from the water. Corals grow very fast.

I have T5 HO on my 40 breeder.

 

[SquareFace]

As an example: I think that 4 ATI over a 40 breeder is just enough. 6 ATI would be much better.

Your tank is deeper than a 40 breeder.

I threw a 150 MH (12K) on a 10 gallon tank and so far haven't found coral that hated it (except for mushrooms). The 150 MH is 7" from the water. Corals grow very fast.

I have T5 HO on my 40 breeder.

I just upgraded my lighting over the weekend. I have 4 ATIs now with the LEDs. Thanks for the advice.