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Did Technology Kill This Hobby?

OP, why do you think there is a lack of interest in this hobby? Serious question, not a flame. Is this just your opinion or is this a reference to some article about a downturn in the hobby?

From my seat, the hobby seems to be exploding. I don't see many companies going out of business, LFS maybe. The other board I frequent, not RC, seems to have a constant flow of new members that are just starting out I the hobby. I think all the folks we see selling off or leaving on this board is generally money, time and/or lack of interest.

IMO if anything is going to kill this hobby it's going to be the environment.
 
I think new technology actually makes things more fun for a lot of people and attracts more to the hobby. The most difficult thing about reefkeeping is that unlike other hobbies, you can't just put it in the closet like golf clubs for a few months and then pick it back up when your in the mood. Any major life event can also doom an interest in reefkeeping as time is the major component for success. There are many reasons why people drop out and not much we can do about a lot of them. What we can do is try to help the newbies and each other so that accident, frustration and failure isn't one of those reasons.
 
I don't see a downturn for this hobby but continuous explosion.
When Finding Dory comes out next year, blue tang will face extinction. That is why some companies offer top rewards for technology to breed Dory.
Petco is gearing toward the 2nd wave of saltwater bloom after Finding Nemo.
Thailand has new coral farms, EU has new coral farms, some are government supported.
Aquaculture clam farms can't even produce enough for the world-wide demand.
Many new aquaculture farms in tropics in full swing.
Now where is the downturn? Thanks
 
I think two additional things are at play here.

One is, smart phones. Not just here but on every forum I visit across the net it seems like every other or every third thread starts with some sort of non-punctuated, 15 line, incomprehensible, run on sentence, with no clear point or question. That's never good for healthy discussion.

Two, more particular to this forum but still a larger internet based trend, information overload. Years ago it felt like we had a near cutting edge informational site here. Now, it feels like nearly all of the basic, intermediate, and often even advanced info is already out there a quick google search away.
Now speaking for myself only, if I have a question or idea I have never seen before I'm more likely to post it on RC or another national/international site figuring that I have a better chance of someone with an answer or relevant experience seeing it. Sometimes after something on the larger net has caught my interest I might post here with something along the lines of "who's tried the tank transfer method", to see what the locals have to say.
Meanwhile the trend that we probably have all noticed over the years, and many have criticized the BRS for, is an ever increasing ratio of people more using the site for buying and selling - and less for information sharing. People want to post locally to buy and sell for obvious reasons, while at the same time more and more people go to the larger fish/reef net for information.

Hmm, interesting thing to notice here. Someone asked a unique question and it generated a pretty lively discussion.

Back to the original question, I do think the increasing popularity of complex and EXPENSIVE equipment probably does add a lot of intimidation factor for people new to the hobby. Also the fascination with expensive controllers, LED light systems and all the other gadgets does fill a lot of the discussion space across the fish/reef net and in turn pushes a lot of discussion on the basics to the back burner. I can certainly see how these patterns might be leading to incresing numbers of new reefers spending too much money, learning too little on the basics, and eventually leaving the hobby disappointed. Reading test kits suks, but $10,000 of investment means nothing if a person doesn't understand the most basic biology and chemistry in their system.
 
For me most of what turned me off from ever getting into reef tanks was the amount of equipment, and time I was under the impression that I thought was needed to be successful, which turned out to be not necessarily true.

A lot of my freshwater friends get turned off from that impression as well so it's been a struggle personally to get them involved or to setup a tank, and differ their opinion.
There's definitely a high turn over rate for those that leave the hobby from my perspective, but at the same time I see a lot of new people filling in those spots to.

I run a pretty simple, and dummed down tank. I think if I had to pay out for the expensive ever evolving equipment in order to have a successful tank I would have to reevaluate if this hobby was for me.
 
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I've not attempted to keep up with all the new toys. I've often found that they don't work as advertised, and have a very high failure rate until all the bugs have been worked out. Dispite the size of my tank I've generally found the KISS method the best. Everytime I get some fancy controller or wave maker it does not work long term. I've tossed out most of the hitech controllers and mostly use stand alone equipment, sometimes with cheap backups. I still use the same homemade calcium reactor that's been on my system since I set it up.

Regarding the lack of posts/activity, I think a lot of the big questions have been answered. In many cases you can do a search for a specific question and up pops your question. In the old days there were a lot of debates, but many of them were resolved in the long run by finding out what worked.

Regarding reef-keeping chemistry, when I go to speak at clubs I oftentimes offer up a number of topics that I could speak on...it's pretty rare that the reef-keeping chemistry one gets chosen, even though there are not a lot of people in the speaker 'pool' who (IMO) can do it justice. And when I do speak on this topic even though I try my best to make it as entertaining as possible (dance a jig between slides, etc.), oftentimes people have already had a beer or two and just nod off within the first 10 minutes! lol
 
For noobs the Internet is a best friend and worst enemy wrapped into one.
If you know where to look and who to listen to then your golden! (Newbies normally don't)I myself was included.

When I first started I did a Google search and went to pet co for info, On the net I found a check list of things you need for a basic set up. I went into pet co (with my list) and was told by the manager of aquatics I didn't need half these things.
First thing she told me I didn't need was a protein skimmer!! Second thing was circulation pumps...(she told me air stones were fine.) Just crazy I mean she told me these things weren't needed unless I was planning on having multiple large predatory fish. I was setting up to have a med sized mixed reef.
On a different forum I was told I didn't need an Ro/Di and to cycle my tank with a clown.

I mean the wealth of misinformation is just as extensive if not more extensive then quality info...... This type of bad info can turn a potential reefer into an avid reef hater when things go south fast......
 
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I've not attempted to keep up with all the new toys. I've often found that they don't work as advertised, and have a very high failure rate until all the bugs have been worked out. Dispite the size of my tank I've generally found the KISS method the best. Everytime I get some fancy controller or wave maker it does not work long term. I've tossed out most of the hitech controllers and mostly use stand alone equipment, sometimes with cheap backups. I still use the same homemade calcium reactor that's been on my system since I set it up.

Regarding the lack of posts/activity, I think a lot of the big questions have been answered. In many cases you can do a search for a specific question and up pops your question. In the old days there were a lot of debates, but many of them were resolved in the long run by finding out what worked.

Regarding reef-keeping chemistry, when I go to speak at clubs I oftentimes offer up a number of topics that I could speak on...it's pretty rare that the reef-keeping chemistry one gets chosen, even though there are not a lot of people in the speaker 'pool' who (IMO) can do it justice. And when I do speak on this topic even though I try my best to make it as entertaining as possible (dance a jig between slides, etc.), oftentimes people have already had a beer or two and just nod off within the first 10 minutes! lol
I always felt you tank chemistry and disaster presentation should be a staple in the meeting lineup even if they were a pre meeting Q&A presentation. How can you go wrong with these topics there are always new reefers
 
I think people in general have less patience/attention span than in days of yore.
The focus and persistence it takes to setup and maintain a system has become a rare thing indeed.
The American way today is fast!now!more!


I couldn't agree more! I've been doing this hobby since 1999. I've had beautiful tank without an APEX. I agree that Americans have little patience and want immediate results. I do not want to go completely automated with an APEX but there are some things that make it easier like pump controllers for waves and alternating current, an ATO, lights with timers built in or a simple timer on your fuge light. I just started a tank about four months ago. I waited a few weeks to add a few green chromis then an entire month before I added some zoa frags.

Technology is not a substitute for good husbandry like testing regularly, doing water changes and equipment maintenance.

When things go wrong like low Ph or calcium people react and make drastic changes like adding a boat load of calcium to bring it up to 420ppm in one day instead of adding a little over several days then retesting. In the ocean changes happen very slowly so we should do the same in our tanks or shock the hell out of the species we've been entrusted to take care of.
 
First off, Yes I see this thread is two years old. (I read slow) I just saw it by searching for undergravel filters, (which I actually still use). No really!.
I started this hobby in 1971, I think it was on Tuesday about 2 or 2:30 in the afternoon. That is also when the hobby started in the states. At that time we had no technology, not even credit cards. We also had no artificial salt or gravel. (I used blue driveway gravel and water from the East River) We had incandescent lights and that's about it. No powerheads only piston air pumps. Our fish lived. They hated us, but they lived. When they got sick (and they always came to us sick) we used human medications as there were no salt water fish medications. Ich was called oodinium, then white spot disease, then coral fish disease then something else. I don't know what it is called now as my fish are not allowed to get it. Eventually they invented powerheads. But they were not submersible. At least you were not supposed to submerge them. (there also were no GFCIs, but we were Men and the shocks kept us awake) They sat on top of the tube to the undergravel filter as that was the only type of filtration except the HOB filter with fiberglass in it that we all used.
Our corals were dead, white corals that we bought in furniture stores, (they used it for decoration) The only electronics we had was our doorbell that someone would ring as they came door to door trying to sell you vacuum cleaners or brushes.
Our fish lived fine.
We didn't dose anything but we did take out our corals every week to soak in bleach or acid to make them nice and white. The first fish food sold was dried ants. (That is not a misprint) I used earthworms, clams, sardines or anything else they would eat. My fish lived, but they started to like me more.
In 1972 my blue devils spawned. There was no food for them and they would not eat meat loaf. Eventually I learned how to keep the fish healthy and spawning, but only blue devils, dominoe's and sergeant majors were for sale. Oddly enough Moorish Idols came a little while later. Guess what kind of luck I had keeping them alive? :p
Gradually different systems came about. Jaubert, bioballs, etc. I had them all and discarded them all in favor of my still running reverse undergravel filter and dolomite gravel. (The driveway gravel just didn't cut it)
Martin Moe was around then but no one else. I know Albert Thiel and he started a few years after me. All the rest of them came about later.
I have had fish continuously over 60 years and I love this hobby. For me it is not even a hobby but a way of life. Some people love the technology, some love the colors of the SPS, some (like me) like to see everything spawn, and some are here for the Supermodels.
I can't say if technology has made more people leave the hobby, but it takes a special type of person to stay with this. There are a few of us around who have been doing it for over 20 years, but not many. The vast majority sadly leave before 5 years.
Here is my tank circa 1972. You can see the bleached corals and that Male model next to the tank.



Here is the first page of my log book showing how I killed all my fish.



Blue devil over his nest of eggs in that barnacle shell (Circa 1972)


Blue devil eggs.
 
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Is that what a computer looked like when you were a kid?
 
I was a kid before they invented Kids. :cool:
For a computer I had my fingers and toes. A cell phone was when you were in Jail and they let you have one call.
If you were Gay, you were happy.
Credit cards was a little note you wrote to someone saying I owe you a dollar.
A reefer smoked Pot.
Reefing was a bunch of people smoking Pot.
A fish tank had goldfish in it.
TVs were black and white, there were only 4 or 5 channels and at about 9:00 they went off and there was just a white dot in the center of the screen.
Ed Sullivan was about the only thing on
Air conditioning was a small fan in your window.
A car's air conditioner was this little triangular vent window on the side.
Bumpers on a car was to bump things.
Gas was 27 cents, but I never had 27 cents.
Sneakers were "Keds" and they cost 75 cents.
When your shoe soles wore out, you found an abandoned house and ripped up the flooring which was linoleum, you put a piece of that in your shoe.
When you did something wrong in school the teacher smacked you and sent you to the principal, who smacked you, then your parents beat you with a belt for doing something that made the teacher smack you.
Garbage cans were iron.
Fish tanks had slate bottoms and were sealed (not very well) with tar.
Google was an encyclopedia which were 29 very heavy books that couldn't be updated or connected to the net. But they didn't get viruses, only book worms.
If you had no talent, you didn't get to perform on TV
TV shows were live and they always made mistakes.
When you were 18 you got drafted. If you didn't like it, you went to jail. When you got out, you got drafted.
 
That sounds accurate...
 
well I remember getting our first color TV when I was a kid . then pong came out and then pac man and space invaders , it was allover then . My first tank was glass though lol. itwas a 55 african chiclid tank . well my first real tank . and I was 14 that was 1985
 
Look back at this 2 years old thread, and look at today.
The hobby is booming. But there is really not much new in technology come out for the past decade.

Controller is an old thing just gets easier to program. It tells you that your tank is leaking when you are a thousand miles away at the beach.

Dosing pumps are just doing pumps, mated with all those wifi, blue tooth, alien space craft and kill your tank faster than ever. Such as the tendency of dumping a container full of Alk, or Calcium or snake oil because lacking a software update?

Who really need blue tooth to program t-5 while home depot timer does not require learning curve.

Carbon dosing? It was invented decades ago for farming fish.

The first protein skimmer from Tunze is still as effective. The old design of LifeReef skimmer still out perform the latest DC pumps with Needle wheels.

A $450 controllable return pump?
 
I have a reefkeeper that only controls my heater and fans or chiller whichever I decide to run . Ok sure my lights have wifi but I never touch them .
 
Paul B LOL, I love it !!! Modern times. Kid act up in class teacher woose with attention, sends you to the school psychologist, then puts you in learning disability classes, no real life intervention just coddle. Kid needs new shoes, spend $100+- on new ones when your dead broke. The Kardashian's need I say more....2010 or something Gas almost $4/gallon and definitely a struggle to pay the Piper...google this google that..google your neighbor to make sure they OK. CNN,NBC,CBS,MSMBC, SCRRIPTED to the tee.

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When my kid asked me what a CD was, I knew time has changed...
 
When my kid asked me what a CD was, I knew time has changed...
Right... I'm 29, cassette was still playing strong early on and really till the late 90's then CD's took it all over. I love the audio produced from CD's it's so crisp and clear. I remember hearing the first tunes from pure digital format and being disappointed by the quality produced through the headphones. Now is a new day and digital quality is amazing. I'd like to listen to a CD again for comparison. My son is 2, and I know for a fact if he (ever)) asks me what a CD is I'm going to be that guy that tells him it was the best quality audio format ever produced, like the guys and gals who spoke the same only about vinyl records...

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