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Experiences with "Kick-Ick"?

I mistakenly introduced ich into my tank (back in December). At first the tangs have a tough time with the ich, but if you have good water parameters, the fish seem to become imune to the parasite.
I think cleaner shrimp help. (I have 4).
I've always wondered if these types of products work, or if the fish just improve on their own. My guess is the later.
 
That's totally possible Mark. In my case the fish immediately turned the corner when I started the treatment, but correlation doesn't necessarily equal causation. Could have been coincidence.
 
Based on my years of experience, I've noticed that the first cyclical outbreak is moderate, then it tends to clear up a bit, then a few days later another outbreak, but this time a bit worse than the first. But after the second, the ich tends to become less aparent and the fish seem to develop some sort of immunity to it.

Now in the past, I've treated with copper and hypo (in a hospital tank) and they both definitely work. Keeping the display fish free for a month prettymuch guarantees an ich free tank. But this last battle, there was just no way of removing all the fish, so instead of trying a kick-ich type of product, I went natural using cleaner shrimp (I did soak a few meals in garlic) and it took about a month and although I'm pretty sure I still have the parasite in my tank, it is not aparent on any of the fish (including Powder Blue which seems most vulnerable).
In any case, I highly recommend optimum water parameters, stability (for the fishes sake in the short term) and quality feedings.
Kick Ich, garlic and similar products may work but nature works for certain.... that is given the above.
 
NateHanson said:
Yeah, I certainly didn't mean to put you on the spot, just wanted to clarify perhaps for newer members that extreme circumstances don't help (although those neon gobies hardly count as fish at all, do they? :p) Did they appear to eat any of the ich


They did pick at the other fish from time to time, but they by no means stayed with a fish with ick like and licked it clean.
 
'nature' has not worked for me. 10 consecutive months of thriving c.irritans..i must be doing something right.
there has been at least 4 different species of fish(clown,angel,wrasse,trigger) that have not shown any 'immunity' to the parasite cycle after cycle.

just to reiterate: kick-ich,garlic,cleaners,UV have had no effect at eradication. the latest cycle at the 9 month point was getting bad (gill,eye infestations) that i had no choice but to use 1 of the only 2 scientifically proven methods.
good luck with the UV.
 
Trigger,
do you have any cleaner shrimp/wrasses?
Also, any chance you could post your tank specs.
I assume it's a FO tank you are talking about?
 
I think I'd say that my experince having used it a couple of time is "it certainly didn't seem to hurt" - and after using it the ICH cleared up in my tank.

That having been said, I'm in the camp that healthy, non-stressed fish naturally resist ICH. I've had ICH in my tank, mostly in new, stressed fish, and they've all lived and no longer show signs of it - but I understand that's it's likely still in my tank. So they must be fighting it off.

If I had an outbreak in addition to doing what seemed appropriate to reduce stress and increase overall health (as one example, adding garlic to feedings), I would not hesitate to use Kick Ick again...

- Michael

reefphreak said:
Kick Ick worked for me..... Along with buying a Cleaner Shrimp.....
 
Call them you lazy bum!
 
It helped with my ich problem too! I also added 3 cleaner shrimp and i have an eating cleaner wrasse(4 months now! I got lucky:D ). It's worth a shot if it doesn't harm your corals, clams, inverts, etc..Which it didn't in my case. Also, try to find the reason for the stress on the fish. Whether it be other aggressive tankmates, poor water quality etc..I added way too many fish to a new tank and that was my reason. I have a 40watt UV sterilizer you can borrow till you get yours in. I bought it when i was treating with ich but never used it after a couple weeks with Kick-ich. Good luck....
 
1) No natural predator has been shown to "eat" or otherwise impact populations of ich, at least not in any study I've seen or heard about. Not cleaner shrimp, not neon gobies...nothing. The stomach contents of various popular "cleaner" livestock have been examined ich doesn't seem to be on the menu.

That said, it is possible that "cleaner" livestock may provide some other benefit to infected fish which in turn helps the fish naturally protect itself.

2) Kick-ich and many other similar products claim to work by increasing the production of the natural mucous lining of fish. The claim is that ich has difficulty breaking through this layer. Many of these products are based on commonly available pepper-based ingrediants.

I'm not aware of any scientific study that shows the efficacy of any of these products. That said, I'm also not aware of any studies that show that any/all of these products don't work. If you do any significant research on Kick-ich you will find many people that believe it helped them irradicate ich. As we've seen here, you'll also find a lot of people that don't believe it did anything other than sap cash from their wallet.

Personally, I'm inclined to think the product, and similar variations, actually can work/help but that's just a gut feeling. I don't think anybody will be able to definitely say much of anything about these products efficacy because nobody is going to spend the money to do so. Many people far more expert than I feel the benefits of these products are dubious at best.

3) Ich has a well-known lifecycle. The only two proven methods to get rid of it are copper and hypo-salinity treatments. Both of those have downsides and are also often not successful as they are very harsh treatments and often times treatment is simply applied to late to help or the treatment is applied incorrectly.

4) Garlic, home remedies are also popular treatments for ich. Garlic is believed to improve the immune response system, not just in fish, but in many creatures including us. Whether or not that holds water who really knows. Many people believe garlic works in the same way that the pepper-based products work, by making the fish produce more mucous. Again, I couldn't find any scientific studies that showed the efficacy of garlic or any of the other common home remedies.

5) UV. As has already been mentioned, UV has been shown to be fairly ineffective at eliminating ich from a tank. UV indescriminantly kills all the life in the water that passes over the lamp -- only the water passing through the UV system is processed. It can be quite effective at preventing ich from tranferring to a 2nd tank from the first.

That said, it is possible that UV could reduce the ich population sufficiently to allow the fish's natural immune response to contain the infestation.

6) Temperature. Studies have shown that temperature variation isn't going to stop ich. While raising the temperature can speed up the lifecycle, it isn't going to kill ich.

The bottom line is that you have two options to rid your tank of ich (and yes, I mean 100% ich free)...copper and hypo. You also have several options that may or may not help your battle with ich.

In my case, neither has yet been a reasonable option (my system is too large; I would need way too big a QT tank or way to many QT tanks). I've been lucky and haven't lost anything to ich but I have ich in my tank for sure; my Tangs occassionally have spots. I've had several (once or twice a year) "outbreaks"; never horrifically bad, but not pleasant either. In every case, for whatever reason, it has subsided. I've used garlic but have no real opinion on whether or not that helped. Some of my fish like garlic and I don't believe it hurts, so I continue to feed it on occassion.

If I were to have a really bad outbreak again, I would probably consider using kick-ich unless I could find a way to do hypo, which would be my #1 choice.
 
I have never used KI but I have read of lots of mixed experiences.

Personally I'm in the hypo or copper camp.

to anyone interested in related reading check out the link on the bottom of Triggerfish's posts. It has reports of a bunch of peoples experiences over some time, many of them trying KI with varying results.

Chris (agent), If you decide to go the QT and hypo route I have a fish trap and QT system that I would be willing to loan you for the couple of months it would take.

Here's a link to a poll someone just started on RC
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=709204&goto=newpost
 
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joefitz said:
1) No natural predator has been shown to "eat" or otherwise impact populations of ich, at least not in any study I've seen or heard about. Not cleaner shrimp, not neon gobies...nothing. The stomach contents of various popular "cleaner" livestock have been examined ich doesn't seem to be on the menu.

That said, it is possible that "cleaner" livestock may provide some other benefit to infected fish which in turn helps the fish naturally protect itself.
Just a question; What are the cleaners picking at? I'd love to know cause whenever my arm is in my tank, they pick at my arm!
 
I had awesome luck with hypo in a fish only tank but you can't go that route in your reef. If you have alot of fish and you don't want to tear your tank apart, try the kick-ich.
 
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I think cleaner shrimp are definitely doing something to help. The affected fish go repeatedly to the shrimp who seem to peck at them. The healthy fish do not go to the shrimp. Possible that they're just picking the parasites off the fish and eating the dead tissue? Or who knows, but they're definitely doing something.
 
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