Flow question

[aresangel]

So Recently I had my two birdsnests dye off. It looks like my Gatorade birdsnest lost about 30% and my pink birdsnest is down to about 10% left... My question (and I saw this in a previous post), is what is the amount of water flow I need for my 25 gallon nano. It is a 24" X 24" X 12" aquarium. I have a Koralia 240gph an the output flow from my JBJ Canister filter (198 gph).

Is this enough flow? What is the best configuration ? The return from the filter goes up and across the tank at 30 degrees from the back left to the center and the koralia goes from the back right corner to the opposite corner about 1/2 way down.

 

[reefstarter]

might need a touch more but not much . are you running a skimmer ? and what are the tank parameters please . Alk , Calcium and mag . plus nitrates and phosphates

 

[aresangel]

Here are the parameters when I got back from England (10 days) and noticed the birdsnests were dying off.
Calcium 460 ppm kH 14 (normally around 10 but spiked while I was gone) Nitrate 5ppm Phosphate 0-0.25 ppm pH 8.0 Ammonia 0-0.25 Nitrite 0ppm

I don't have a magnesium test and I am assuming Alkanility is pH?
I always care on the side of caution wen it comes to ammonia and phosphate readings and give the range if it is not an exact color match. I use the API Reef master and salt water test kits.

 

[reefstarter]

Do a small water change like 1/2 to a gallon maybe and let all come down

 

[aresangel]

I did a water change the day after those results. I also checked the filter media in the canister and placed an order for new filter floss as that seemed pretty much mucked up. I rinsed what I could and emptied the canister water (about 1.5-2 gallons) yesterday. I will re-test Today and update with the results.

I do not have a protein skimmer. I do not know how the kH got up so high! I thought that was something that got used up by the corals and the snails etc. during shell and skeletal production. CaCO3 and (Mg)CaCO3.... I am surprised and confused to see it rise...

 

[jokersplayground]

for sps coral and what i do is i have min of 30x turn over of the tank volume

 

[aresangel]

So with a 25 gallon tank 750. Ok I am at about 450 so should I upgrade with a second current circulator or purchase the next one up? The 425 is on sale for $20 at drsfosterandsmith.com. They also have a 565 for $30.

Also has anyone had any experience with this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4588+11363&pcatid=11363 I think it would improve the circulation/reduce deadspots in my tank and its only 8 bucks!

 

[Flame Angel]

Some say point the power head upwards. I cannot remember the name of the speaker we had several years back that conducted a Gyro flow experiment.

Some also say that small canister filters are not good for salt as they breed bad things...phosphates.

When you do a water change do you vacuum your crushed coral. That is a big place for things to gather as well to drive numbers up.

 

[jokersplayground]

So with a 25 gallon tank 750. Ok I am at about 450 so should I upgrade with a second current circulator or purchase the next one up? The 425 is on sale for $20 at drsfosterandsmith.com. They also have a 565 for $30.

Also has anyone had any experience with this http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4588+11363&pcatid=11363 I think it would improve the circulation/reduce deadspots in my tank and its only 8 bucks!

that would connect to your return line or and power head that it would fit on. i would go with the bigger one. if it was me i would buy a jabeo or a vortech mp10. those two pumps will help get rid of dead spots plus you will only have 1 pump instead of 2

 

[choff]

Hey Angel, you may or may not need more flow, buy dollars to doughnuts your alk swing is most likely the cause of your die off.

 

[reefstarter]

Hey Angel, you may or may not need more flow, buy dollars to doughnuts your alk swing is most likely the cause of your die off.

agreed there , but a tiny bit more flow never hurt anything but a candy kane lol

 

[aresangel]

In times past I have done water changes only surficial water. I recently (after the die off) cleaned the gravel since I got the new hose with the attachment. The good news is that it looks like both birds nest have stabilized since the last water change. I only have one small branch 3/4 left of the pink birdsnest and about 50-65% left of the Gatorade birdsnest. Anyway to control kH from going up? If it goes up does that mean there is a build up of CO2 from the fish's respiration? I just don't want to have this issue again in the future.

Thanks for the advice all.

 

[dz6t]

What kind of light do you have?

 

[dz6t]

For SPS, you need at least a Koralia 750 for a 25 gallon tank.
Don't count the return flow and a canister filter can cause high nitrate and phosphate.

 

[delta]

your in cycle with those ammonia readings. might be that tank is just too unstable or that the die off caused a mini cycle. given the setup and what you've posted I am going to air on the side of tank is just unstable. Flow is a good thing but it comes down to more than just numbers aquascaping overflows and what not can change what you need or do not need.

If you are not topping off your evaporation with freshwater your ALk will rise.

If you could give a better explanation of your tank and what the setup is, the maintenance and parameters it should be easier to advise.

 

[aresangel]

I have a 25 gallon acrylic tank. JBJ EFU-25 canister filter, currently have the 240gph circulation pump, a 24" reefbrite LED bar the live rock, crushed coral (total about 25-30 pounds combined). I have been refilling with mixed salt water so that may be a reason for the rise as well. Thanks for pointing that out Delta. I don't think it is in a cycle because the 0-0.25 ppm ammonia is a range. It looks more yellow than green but because it isn't the exact yellow match I use that range. I am hesitant to get a larger pump because it is a small tank. About 4 inches in the back section (so really is is 24" wide by 20 inches back, and 12 inches tall) is partitioned off because it originally came with a fluvial submersible filter which hid back there. I have just removed the top of the aquarium that came with it to help promote oxygen exchange. Dong told me when I got the birdsnest from him that a cover reduces the gas exchange. I am going to have to run to my school tomorrow to pick up some DI water for the tank since I do not have a RODI at home yet. Once I start building my 72 bowfront I will be getting the RODI first then working the equipment.

Thanks all for the advice. I am thinking that the lack of fresh DI top off over the months and the neglected filter media caused the peak in the carbonate hardness. That with the lack of evaporation/gas exchange due to the lid constantly being on is my perfect storm that led to the die off. I will probably still put the lid on at night at home because of the cats, when I bring it back to school I will keep the top off all the time.

 

[Fishport]

I may have missed it but you never mentioned your salinity. You indicated you are using a seawater mix for topping off and you removed the cover for gas exchange, which would also accelerate evaporation. I would expect that a tank cycling problem would drive alkalinity lower from the build up of acidic compounds. If your salinity is high perhaps that explains the build up of buffering capacity.

I have a SERA biotop 16 gallon. I have one chamber half filled with live rock and occasionlly use filter pad media. You may want to consider how to use your built in chambers if you take the advice of prior posts recommending against the cannister filter. You probbaly have room for an airstone skimmer in one chamber to help with maintaining SPS. You could also grow some macroalgae in another,

I think flow is a special challenge in a nano. There is no getting around that any area of a natural reef has tremendous flow compared to most of our tanks and there are probably a much higher ratio of useful nutrition to waste compounds within that flow. But too much flow in a small tank and you blow up the substrate. Plus there isn't a while lot of extra room for circulation pumps. I am looking forward to the price dropping on dc circulation pumps that would allow for adjusting and varying flow. The other challege is there isn't much room to manipulate tools for cleaning your rocks.

I have never needed to clean my substrate (to my knowledge) My pistol shrimp and snails seem to keep it turn over fairly well. When I broke dowwn my tank after about 14 months in order to move it, the substrate seemed in good shape.

There are probably two approaches to consider when maintaining a nano reef- learn what organism thrive in your setup or keep modifying your setup to succeed with the organisms you want to keep. I was looking for a simple and inexpensive way to build experience and I am learning what thrives with my setup and how to use them to their best advantage. Good luck, it does hurt to see anything in your reef die off.