Help don't know why my fish die

[quanctran]

i just setup this new tank a week ago. with sand and live rock only. and recently i just add two clownfish and 1 neon goby and 6 crab. the next day the neon goby die. does anyone know the reason why? my nirate lvl is 10

 

[Salty Dog]

Most likely this is because your tank hasn't "cycled" yet. This often takes 4-6 weeks, sometimes longer. You need to cycle it until Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates are all zero. Then it is safe to add livestock.

What type of filtration system are you using?

 

[Behrmon]

A week is a VERY short time to be adding fish and your tank has most likely not run thru it's cycle. Nitrate should be around 0. What are the other parameters of your tank? Salinty, PH, trite, amonia, temp? Where is the live rock from and are you sure it's live rock?

Many folks will give a tank a minimum of at least 3 weeks before adding even the clean up crew.

BTW - Welcome to the club.

 

[chrisc]

As everyone above has said, your tank did not cycle yet.

Don't add any other critters to the tank.

Read this for more details on the nitrogen cycle (there are other good articles too, this is the first I grabbed, search for reef nitrogen cycle):

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrogencycle/a/aa073199.htm

How big is your tank?

 

[RayD]

Four to six weeks before adding anything. No getting around it.

 

[quanctran]

Salinty 1.024, PH 8.4, temp 82 degree. yes i got figi and tonga branch live rock...i guess that is the case. i didn't know it need to be cycle thanks

 

[biggyclops]

did someone tell you that? that all you need to do was to do that and your all set? what kind of setup are you planning? the reason why i am asking is that you have at 55 gallon tank with 44 pounds of rock.. i would at the minimum go 1 pound per gallon

 

[quanctran]

oh. i plan to do a reef tank with fish. so i should get more rocks?

 

[Qwank]

you should also be testing for ammonia and nitrite as they are far more dangerous the nitrates. i see you got 2 clowns now. i was going to say get 5-10 more pounds of rock, but that might make it worse now since it may start the cycle all over again. just let the tank be for about a month and see what happens. i know it seems like forever, but its not bad, and it will be all that much better when you add your fish.

 

[quanctran]

right after that neon goby die i did a water change. now i know that would made the process for cycle longer. is that right? just want to make sure

 

[RichConley]

you should also be testing for ammonia and nitrite as they are far more dangerous the nitrates. i see you got 2 clowns now. i was going to say get 5-10 more pounds of rock, but that might make it worse now since it may start the cycle all over again. just let the tank be for about a month and see what happens. i know it seems like forever, but its not bad, and it will be all that much better when you add your fish.

Nitrite really isnt toxic in salt water either. Its really just ammonia.


The problem is, "the cycle" isnt all that is happening, theres other cycles going on, and theres no way to measure those. Give it time.

 

[saltwaterB]

Nitrite is extremely toxic, Rich!
Sometiems I really wonder where you come up with your info????

-B-

 

[RichConley]

Nitrite is extremely toxic, Rich!
Sometiems I really wonder where you come up with your info????

-B-

That one is directly from Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley.


Where do you get your info B?

Aquarists' concerns about nitrite are usually imported from the freshwater hobby. Nitrite is far less toxic in seawater than in freshwater. Fish are typically able to survive in seawater with more than 100 ppm nitrite! Until future experiments show substantial nitrite toxicity to reef aquarium inhabitants, nitrite is not an important parameter for reef aquarists to monitor. Tracking nitrite in a new reef aquarium can nevertheless be instructive by showing the biochemical processes that are taking place. In most cases, I do not recommend that aquarists bother to measure nitrite in established aquaria.

 

[saltwaterB]

from 20 years of personal experience and thousands of other people with similar experience.

I have personally done autopsies on fish with ichthyologists. Many times the cause of death was hemorrhaging due to Nitrite poisoning.

I would never try to discredit Randy. I have read many things that he has written some I agree with some I do not. This is one I do not. (mostly based on years of personal experience)

-B-

 

[RichConley]

from 20 years of personal experience and thousands of other people with similar experience.
-B-

Ever heard of correlation without causation?

 

[RichConley]

From "Diseases of Fish" Bowser, 1999

Treatment of methemoglobinemia may consist of adding chloride (usually as sodium chloride) to the water. The rationale is that the chloride ion and nitrite ion are competing monovalent anions for limited number of uptake sites across the gill epithelium. The management strategy is to establish a ration of Cl:NO2 of at least 5:1. This is thought to reduce the uptake of nitrite by the fish to the extent where the natural methemoglobin reductase enzyme system in the fish can convert the methemoglobin back to hemoglobin.

Chloride is at roughly 19,500ppm in salt water.

 

[abwalker]

I missed the part where he said it was a 55 with 44 lbs of rock. Is that true? Also, was the rock sold as "cured"?

I'm with Rich on this one with regard to fish. I was having a nitrite spike in a system at our aquaculture facility (~8 ppm), but the fish were eating and behaving normally. I did a lit search and came up with basically the same thing Rich posted: nitrite toxicity in freshwater can be managed by adding salt and nitrite is much less of a concern in salt water than is ammonia.

I do wonder about nitrite's effect on on our corals and other invertebrates and I wouldn't recommend rushing the nitrite phase of the initial cycle in a reef tank.

 

[quanctran]

yes the rock sold as cured. 34 lbs of fiji and 10 lbs tonga