Internal Overflow box, Help please!

[aresangel]

Hey all! I am getting ready to DYI my first larger reef system (72 gallon bowfront). I began cutting pieces for my sump that I am making out of a 20gallon long tank. I am doing research on internal overflow boxes and cutting the back of the glass. My question is: What size hole do I need to cut, and what size bulkhead. The pump I am picking up today is a Hydro Centrifugal Return Pump 740gph.

I was thinking about getting an 1800 gph overflow box
http://www.amazon.com/1800-GPH-internal-overflow-box/dp/B00OWKFCMA/ref=sr_1_sc_2?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1438776249&sr=1-2-spell&keywords=interntal+overflow+box

since it will adjust to the output flow and I an upgrade my pump in the future if I want to. The next step down is a 700 gph overflow box on amazon (I have a gift card so I would prefer to use amazon).

That being said, where would I place the drain? (bottom or middle of that said overflow box), and what size hole would I need?

Tim

 

[letoan]

Something about 1" will work. The hole size is depending on the bulkhead you choose, like the ABS 1" from BRS required 1.65"...

 

[aresangel]

So 1" bulkhead is referring to the inner dimension of the bulkhead?

 

[JohnK]

1" refers to the pipe size which is not actually 1" ID or OD. (Who made up this system, I have no idea....). The OD of 1" PVC is around @ 1.5" (not exactly, don't quote me), and the ID varies depending depending if it's standard (sch40) or heavy duty (sch80) spec pipe. Bulkheads are also sized the same way, so a 1" bulkhead will fit the OD of 1" pipe (which again is not actually 1"), and then the hole size required will depend on the bulkhead style you chose, standard aka"abs" or heavy duty aka sch80.

Now the really crazy part it that I'm serious and none of the above ^ is a joke

 

[pavster]

I just finished building my 60 cube. Using a Eheim 1262 for return but I have about 10 feet of head. Measured flow is 400 GPH.

For overflow box, I used this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1000-GPH-Ov...al-aquarium-/191230961433?hash=item2c8640e719

It's absolutely beautifully made.

For overflow bulkhead I used a 1.5 inch one of these:

http://www.marinedepot.com/Standard...kheads-Plumbing_Parts-FT1121-FIFTBHSB-vi.html

For return I used a 1" version. These bulkheads are built like tanks, much better than the standard black ones.

with a 1.5" overflow bulkhead/tubing it's definitely nowhere near capacity but it's nice and quiet, despite a very long run from my display to the basement sump. It was a little scary to drill a nearly 3" hole in the glass for the heavy duty bulkhead.

I placed the bulkhead right in the middle of the overflow box - the only place it fits really due to size. The whole thing takes up minimal space in my tank.

Also I highly recommend flexible pvc pipe. Makes life sooo much easier:

http://www.marinedepot.com/Flexible...VC_Tubing-Alpine_Corp-FT1373-FIFTTUFP-vi.html

I used rigid tubing for the long runs but the flex stuff for terminations, especially where some movement was expected.

Good luck - let me know if you want to see photos of any of this stuff.

 

[JohnK]

Adding...

You should use standard sch 40 pipe, there is no reason to use sch80 for our purposes.

For bulkheads you can go either way, standard pvc bulkheads have been known to crack if over tightened a bit, whereas sch80 bulkheads are significantly more sturdy.

For your drain pipe size, 1" will probably work with that pump regardless of the drain design, but before committing you would be wise to consider and then choose between the different drain designs. I say this because if you go with the common "duroso" aka vented drain, and you have the space, it will run quieter and smoother if you go a size larger.

Continued reading / headache........
Drain designs 101;
Duroso / vented drains take in a mix of air and water. They are reliable, don't need back up drains, and are easy to set up and nood no real adjusting. Duroso drains are also slightly to very noisy, and they deliver a frothy bubble filled, turbulent mix to the sump.

Herbie / simple siphon drains take in only water. They MUST have a separate back up drain, and thus two bulkheads are required. Herbie drains are silent, and they deliver only water to the sump so bubbles are not an issue. Herbie drains do need slight but frequent adjustments to keep them running prpoerly.

Finally there is the "bean" design, which is a Herbie plus a duroso. This set up requires 3 bulkheads, runs silent and without bubbles going into the sump. The addition of the duroso to the Herbie makes self adjusting.

*note, if you run a basement sump or other arrangement that involves angled or horizontal runs of pipe Herbie and bean designs may not work properly and you may be limited to a duroso design.

 

[choff]

I'm a big fan of bean animal. Yes, it's an extra pipe, but it's bullet proof and silent.

Btw john, I have a basement sump with horizontal runs and I was having issues with my bean restarting until I learned a trick. I cut the end of the siphon pipe that flows into the sump with a 45 degree vertical cut. So the high end of the pipe is just below the water line and the low end a couple of inches below. This alleviated the trapped air and now it restarts every time.

 

[reef87]

for basement sump.
I think anything more than 2 drain pipes is way too much plumbing. too many holes doing thru the floor and walls. (my opinion)

 

[JohnK]

It is a lot, but a properly set up bean is priceless. Herbie can do the job, but will need pretty constant tuning (or you will be relying on a trickle of water going down the back up drain - and this significantly decreases the safety / reliability)

Then again, with a basement sump you may have lots of room for bubbles to dissipate and an oversized duroso may work just fine and not be much of a compromise.

 

[letoan]

If drilling a few extra holes to unsure no water on the floor in the future, I'll be more than happy to drill as much as necessary.

A fail-safe overflow is priceless. IMO.

 

[JohnK]

Yes, but I would say that a duroso is still a reliable drain. IMO/IME the big benefits of the bean or herbie are the silence and lack of bubbles in the sump. I've never had any of the above have a problem bad enough to cause an overflow in 20 yrs of this hobby.

 

[aresangel]

I just finished the sump! Took a 20 gallon long and free glass cut and siliconed in place. Left is the tank water/ room for a small/medium skimmer, second compartment has egg crate that will hold live rock/bio balls on the bottom and filter floss/ phos floss/carbon on top. That goes to the last section, refugium/ return. I am hoping the water does not overflow I will see what I test it.

My sump will be right below be stand. So I silent flow so then I am looking at a beanie or Herbie. Does anyone have any pictures of these for me to use as a plan? Also has anyone had any experience with the vinyl tubing? What would work I would prefer flexible tubing, but will learn how to use PVC if it is cheaper.

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JohnK]

Looks great.

I'd suggest rigid or "spa-flex" plumbing over flexible.

Here's some links;
http://dursostandpipes.com

Bean;
http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

Herbie, my testing ;
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?97781-quot-Herbie-quot-drains-WOW&highlight=

 

[aresangel]

I like the simplicity of the Herbie nice test John! Would I make a deeper skimmer and use an elbow inside the tank? Depending on the overflow box I can see that requiring more space than allowed. The third pipe of the beanie seems almost redundant which... is its purpose hah.

With spa-flex tubing (flexible pvc I am assuming?) Does that connect to normal pvc adapters with the pvc glue or some type of clamps?


If anyone in the Leominster area has a set of diamond hole saws they are willing to let me borrow I would be extremely grateful if I could borrow them!

 

[JohnK]

Sorry, I missed this post. See my responses in blue;

I like the simplicity of the Herbie nice test John! Would I make a deeper skimmer and use an elbow inside the tank? Depending on the overflow box I can see that requiring more space than allowed. The third pipe of the beanie seems almost redundant which... is its purpose hah.

I'm not sure what you mean about a "deeper skimmer", but using an overflow box like the one being discussed here with the bulkheads going through the back glass, yes you would use a down turned elbow on the siphon drain, a duroso style T on the vented drain, and an up turned elbow on the dry emergency drain. The third pipe on a bean allows a slight trickle which takes handles the regular, slight fluctuations in flow that cause a herbie to need frequent tuning.

With spa-flex tubing (flexible pvc I am assuming?) Does that connect to normal pvc adapters with the pvc glue or some type of clamps?
Yes, spaflex glues into regular PVC fittings. It's PVC pipe with an outside texture like a ribbed condom (sorry, but it's the perfect visual) and the largest OD matches regular PVC, but the pipe is moderately flexible. I've never used spa flex, but I know plenty of others swear by it.


If anyone in the Leominster area has a set of diamond hole saws they are willing to let me borrow I would be extremely grateful if I could borrow them!

I'd offer mine, but I'm pretty sure the one I have that works for 1" PVC fittings is worn out and shouldn't be used again. If you were thinking of going with a 1.5" PVC bulkhead LMK I do have one of those in good working order.

John