is RTN/STN contagious?

[steevareno]

i just lost 75% my corals in the past 72 hours. they all turned white and lost tissue. this sucks. my question is, can i save the few that are pulling through by putting them in somebody's elses tank, or will it spread to their corals also? is there any treatment for this? please help, thanks in advance.

 

[JohnK]

crap steve, that s**ks.

A lot is unknown / minimally understood re; RTN. In short, yes it often does spread, and if it does it often does so very fast, as you are seeing.

Is this all SPS?

has anything changed? Any new corals?

I would offer more but it's not something I have a lot of exp with, I'm sure others will pipe in.

Total bummer,
good luck

jk

 

[Chris A.]

If you have a quarintine tank i'd put them in it and have low flow in it( i saved my green digi colony like this,lost about half and then it stopped)

 

[steevareno]

Yes it is happening to all SPS. Only change was the reactor which brought my parameters from below average to above average basically overnight. The only other thing i can think of is i took out a 3 pound piece of branch rock to glue corals to. This took about 45 mins before i added it back to the tank. Could i have had die off that quickly and if so was it enough to cause an ammonia spike? The levels before the reactor were calcium 330, dkh 9, mag 1200 and after; calcium 460, dkh 12.5, mag 1450. Also dropped the salinty from 1.027 to 1.026 in the same timeframe. i had RTN happen to me 3 year ago with my 29gal and only to SPS. Seemed like a dominoe effect, one coral to the other. The system is also reletivlely immature, only 4 to 5 months. maybe it's a combo of things? I still think it's the levels raising so quickly. I would love to know more about anyone who's had this happen and how they plan to combat it if it comes back in their system. I need some veteran advice please!

 

[BigSmokeShowJOE]

The levels before the reactor were calcium 330, dkh 9, mag 1200 and after; calcium 460, dkh 12.5, mag 1450. Also dropped the salinty from 1.027 to 1.026 in the same timeframe. thats whatdid it you cant bring cal. up 130 over night and alk 3 1\2 dkh and mag up 250 thats what is killing them you need to bring them up slow like over a week NOT a day . can you say (SHOCK)!!!

 

[steevareno]

I know it. My first time dialing in a calcium reactor Just another learning experience. I really need to know what can be done for RTN treatment. If i took out the first coral that showed signs of rtn, would the rest of the tank still been affected? Just want to know what to do in case there is a next time. At least this tank wasn't too stocked with coral. I can't picture losing a 3+ year old system with expensive colonies to this! That would hurt alot more!

 

[JohnK]

Yea, that is really sudden on the level changes.

I feel bad steve,
I would have warned you of changing things too quickly, I never really cranked that reactor up, I wouldn't expect it to spike the levels overnight?

was it running off a controller? I could see how the manual method of dialing in would phase it in nice and slowly. I'm surprised to hear that any reactor could raise levels that fast?

let me know if there's anything I can do to help you out

jk

 

[dz6t]

I'm surprised to hear that any reactor could raise levels that fast?

jk

That is very surprising. Are you sure the test kit is accurate?
Other possiblity is that the media in your reactor contain something that cause RTN.

 

[steevareno]

I don't blame the reactor. I just had no experience dialing one in. Now that i think of it i also added turbo calcium and sodium bicarbonates to raise the calcium and dkh. It's just dawning on me, so i'm sure that's more likely the cause. I just ordered a PH controller so i wasn't using one. Good news is i still have some coral and it could have been worse. Now i am more concerned with it happening again and what else can cause RTN? Also what the cures are...If i took out the first coral at the first sign, would it have spread? And i though ick was bad to deal with, WOW! Jimmy, Thanks for the offer and help! Much appreciated. Steve

 

[dz6t]

Is RTN a virus? I think RTN is a symptom.

 

[steevareno]

yes I use all Salifert test kits every night. The first few days with the reactor the levels were not raising so i cranked up the effluent and bubble count and added turbo calcium and Kent ph/alk. This was the deadly combination! My bad....

 

[steevareno]

I'm going to do some serious reading on RC! Not sure if it's a virus or what....

 

[steevareno]

What would it be a symptom of??

 

[ScottM]

i've noticed a few times when i have had RTN issues, that Temp and sometimes PH seemed to have been the root cause.
FWIW, I have raised and lowered (example 3.5 - 11 DKH) my alk and Ca overnight with out RTN issues (reactor pump seized). i had coral bleaching from such stress, but not RTN. if i even had a temp swing outside the normal range, say my swing was 81 in the day and 79 at night, and if it was either higher or lower (+/-3deg or more) i would have RTN issues.
another thought of mine was high phosphates, phosphates can come from all sorts of places including reactor media...i have found with phosphates, the coral will die slowly, again depending on the levels.

as for stopping RTN....i have tried super glue and all sorts of wacky stuff haven't found a good one yet except frag high and hope to save a piece or 2

 

[ScottM]

oh and FWIW, reactors are not the "best" method to try and raise your tank levels, but don't be fooled to think that it can't raise your levels out of control.
My reactor effluent on an old 220g stocked was 19+DKH to keep the tank at 11.
Think what would have happened had there not been so many corals to consume it. I have "cooked' a few tanks as a result as well.

 

[scavdog]

Generally speaking:

RTN is theorized to be contageous, in that if one coral stresses it can send out chemical signals/compounds that will in turn stress out other colonies in the tank. Think of it as sort of a domino effect.

In this case, the parameter swing is most likely in the culprit. The reactor alone was probably not the stressor. The addition of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in conjunction with the reactor caused a severe parameter spike.

Is RTN a virus? I think RTN is a symptom.

No, not a virus.
"RTN" (Rapid Tissue Necrosis) or "SDR" (Shut down reaction). In these cases, the coral tissue "self destructs" in response to stress.


Hang in there Steve.

 

[steevareno]

"Think what would have happened had there not been so many corals to consume it. I have "cooked' a few tanks as a result as well."
- The corals looked cooked or singed as a result. Some even looked and still look bleached. But by far the worst was the RTN which spread like wildfire!
"i've noticed a few times when i have had RTN issues, that Temp and sometimes PH seemed to have been the root cause.'
- I did adjust my heaters recently so the difference between night and day temp would only be a degree or 2! Use dto go from 77 to 81. Now from 79 to 80. That's pretty scary to think a swing in temp could cause RTN. It's believable though. Also tested 0PPM for phosphates.

 

[steevareno]

"RTN is theorized to be contageous, in that if one coral stresses it can send out chemical signals/compounds that will in turn stress out other colonies in the tank. Think of it as sort of a domino effect"
_ This is how it happened. Very scary!!!!! I'm going to be so much more careful to keep things level!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[steevareno]

'No, not a virus.
"RTN" (Rapid Tissue Necrosis) or "SDR" (Shut down reaction). In these cases, the coral tissue "self destructs" in response to stress."
_ If this happens to me again, I think I am going to self destruct!!!!!!
Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.........

 

[JohnK]

Just to clarify, did/is the tissue on the affected corals suddenly start peeling off, almost looking like a spider web on a stark white skeleton (RTN), or it the tissue still there but look white (bleaching)?

If there's any question, the media I gave you with the reactor was all ARM, about 1/2 was new and the other 1/2 was used a few months and well rinsed.