lanthanum experiment

[reefkeeper2]

I have been looking for ways to economically reduce phosphates in my system. GFO is expensive (especially for a big overfed tank) and it always seems to have a negative impact on my sps. I finally found a way to use lanthanum without getting any in the water column or the main display and it seems to be working well. I am using a product normally used for pools called seaklear. I read about it on RC. I take 5mls of seaklear and mix it with 40mls of water. This is slowly injected into the intake of a skimmer by use of a syringe pump. You could just drip it into the intake by gravity feed if you wanted or use a dosing pump. It's best to go slow, taking 4 or more hours so as not to shock your system. The next step is the most important. The outflow of the skimmer has to run through a 10 micron filtersock. The filtersock catches all the phosphorus precipitate and keeps it out of your system. It functions in the same way as the sand filter does in the large public aquariums.
I started with a phos level of 0.07 and after one 5ml treatment it fell to 0.04 in a 500 gal system. Not bad. No adverse effects seen on the tank inhabitants that I can see, and there was no haze in the tank from any lanthanum.
Like I said before, I first read about this on RC. From what I read people were dripping the lanthanum directly into the filter socks and not a skimmer. I thought the skimmer would mix it better and remove some of the precipitate as well. The setup I have makes this extremely easy to do. If no unforseen trouble arises I think I may have solved one of my biggest problems.

 

[jbishop]

Great news. I wonder if anyone else has ever tried this on these boards?

 

[S Hunter]

I thought Mr Hiller was playing around with this, i could be wrong..

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Lc

I have been looking for ways to economically reduce phosphates in my system. GFO is expensive (especially for a big overfed tank) and it always seems to have a negative impact on my sps. I finally found a way to use lanthanum without getting any in the water column or the main display and it seems to be working well. I am using a product normally used for pools called seaklear. I read about it on RC. I take 5mls of seaklear and mix it with 40mls of water. This is slowly injected into the intake of a skimmer by use of a syringe pump. You could just drip it into the intake by gravity feed if you wanted or use a dosing pump. It's best to go slow, taking 4 or more hours so as not to shock your system. The next step is the most important. The outflow of the skimmer has to run through a 10 micron filtersock. The filtersock catches all the phosphorus precipitate and keeps it out of your system. It functions in the same way as the sand filter does in the large public aquariums.
I started with a phos level of 0.07 and after one 5ml treatment it fell to 0.04 in a 500 gal system. Not bad. No adverse effects seen on the tank inhabitants that I can see, and there was no haze in the tank from any lanthanum.
Like I said before, I first read about this on RC. From what I read people were dripping the lanthanum directly into the filter socks and not a skimmer. I thought the skimmer would mix it better and remove some of the precipitate as well. The setup I have makes this extremely easy to do. If no unforseen trouble arises I think I may have solved one of my biggest problems.

Another dosing method discussed on RC is to slowly drip a diluted solution of LC and water into the overflows of your display. A 5 micron filter bag is used at the exit of the drain to filter out the remnants of the LC and the skimmer filters out any finer particles. My fishroom is remote from my display and hence the drain pipe is lengthy which would allow a very long dwell time for the LC to bind to the PO4.

Has anyone used this method of PO4 reduction?
Any observations/lessons learned/secondary unwanted side effects, etc? I know that this treatment, if done incorrectly can bother fish and inverts.

I am very interested in trying this...thanks for the great info Paul. Please keep us posted!

BTW, melev has been succesful at reducing PO4 via Vodka dosing...any one else have success with this?

 

[skyedolphan]

Paul Please keep us updated as I myself have been doing a lot of reading on this but am scared s*itless to try it out on the tank. If after a couple weeks all looks good for you I may actually give it a try. I have already got the Seaklear after our Aquarium trip but have been to afraid to go any further than the purchase of the product

 

[Liam]

Paul there have been some reports of fishes in the Tang family being adversly affected by the lanthium have you heard about this?

 

[reefkeeper2]

Paul there have been some reports of fishes in the Tang family being adversly affected by the lanthium have you heard about this?

Yes, I heard of this symptom. Supposedly it is caused by fine precipitate that bothers their gills. The 10 micron filtersock is supposed to eliminate this. You could go to 5 micron, but the sock might clog up pretty fast. Also, dosing is supposed to be done very slow, over several hours. This reduces any chance of excess lanthanum getting through the sock and reacting in the water in the display. I dosed for 4 hours. I only have one tang, but I didn't see any distress with any of the fish.

Dawn, I will post updates. I dosed another 5ml today and the phos level is now at 0.0

 

[reefkeeper2]

Here's an update. I have been getting confusing readings with my phosphate tests. After a lanthanum treatment, the phosphate levels drop approximately .05ppm. Twenty four hours later, the phosphate levels are up almost to where I started from. There are 4 possibilities that I can see that can account for this.
1. My tank is loaded with phosphate and it leaches out of the rock and into the water when the levels drop.
2. I didn't remove the old GFO and phosphate is leaching out of it when the levels in the water drop.
3. Daily feedings introduce much more phosphate than I thought possible.
4. testing error

I can rule out testing error because I have confirmed the results with 2 different methods. I have a Milwaukee photometer and a Merke test kit. As for the others I don't know. I removed the old GFO today. The good news is I have not seen any adverse reactions in the tank. There is a white residue coating in the collection cup of the skimmer I introduce the lanthanum to. I will continue to treat 5ml daily until I get a sustained reading of .03. Can anyone else think of a reason the test results are playing yo-yo?

 

[JeremyR]

Probably mostly 1. with a little bit of 3.

 

[Liam]

Probably mostly 1. with a little bit of 3.

which probably indicates that 24/7 phosphate control would be more effective

 

[reefkeeper2]

Randy answered on RC that it will leach from the rock and the GFO. It may take several applications before it won't bounce back up. Other than GFO, I don't know what would remove phosphate on a continual basis.

 

[Liam]

Other than GFO, I don't know what would remove phosphate on a continual basis.

Zeovit

 

[delta]

Zeovit

I have to agree. I have never used anything so easy and effective that I am not worried about side effects with.

I was skeptical but after using just the basic zeovit system to control nutrients I can't see going back to anything else. Smaller system needed less time working on the tank & consistent positive results.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

I have never used anything so easy and effective that I am not worried about side effects with.

Is it really easy? I remember reading a 30 page manual for this system that includes daily washing of the zeoliths and dosing 5 or 6 different components.
Easy to me is a system that can be automated like kalkwasser dripping, GFO reactor, skimming, calcium reactor, etc without the need for daily attention.

Do you have a link to a good explanation of the basic system?

 

[reefkeeper2]

Can zeo really handle the large nutient load of system like mine? And is it cost effective for really large tanks?

 

[Liam]

Can zeo really handle the large nutient load of system like mine? And is it cost effective for really large tanks?

it can handle the size of any system as the components are adjusted according to system volume.
It is not cheap to run on a large system but i find the results are worth it.
Initial set up is quite costly but once you are up and running it is not bad at all.IMO anyway.
The key for me is that it is a more natural based ystem i don't have to worry about unknown long term side effects of dumping rust in my system.

 

[reefkeeper2]

Looks like I have some reading to do.

 

[Greg Hiller]

Most recent thread on this was here:

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67755&highlight=lanthanum

I've yet to start dosing. If I do so I would be certain to filter the precipitate OUT of the water as it is formed.

 

[reefkeeper2]

Here's an update. I am presently dosing 6ml of lanthanum approximately every other day. According to the tests, this keeps the phosphate level at or below 0.03. I am not certain yet if this will be the permanent dosing schedule. There have not been any detrimental effects observed. Since I removed the GFO, the sps look better.

 

[Greg Hiller]

Any new updates here? I'm still thinking about starting this myself.