LED lighting question

[JasonandSarah]

I've read somewhere that there's a new full spectrum "Blue" led diode? Does anyone know the link to this led? I belive it was called
"Natures (Something)"??? Could be wrong lol

 

[reefkeeper2]

So much guesswork. Too much light? Too little light? Too low nutient? Not enough nutrient? On and on. Tons of frustration because there is no definitive way to get the answers you want and you have to guess. And that's just what wer'e all doing, giving it our best guess.
Here's a question... how come you can buy a coral at your LFS, bring it home and throw it under LEDs with no acclimation and it does just fine? How come you have to slowly acclimate the corals in your tank to LEDs for months, but not a new arrival? Since it has never been under LEDs before, shouldn't it melt before your eyes? That new acro frag or colony didn't get a three month acclimation to LED lighting so how come it's ok?

 

[choff]

So much guesswork. Too much light? Too little light? Too low nutient? Not enough nutrient? On and on. Tons of frustration because there is no definitive way to get the answers you want and you have to guess. And that's just what wer'e all doing, giving it our best guess.
Here's a question... how come you can buy a coral at your LFS, bring it home and throw it under LEDs with no acclimation and it does just fine? How come you have to slowly acclimate the corals in your tank to LEDs for months, but not a new arrival? Since it has never been under LEDs before, shouldn't it melt before your eyes? That new acro frag or colony didn't get a three month acclimation to LED lighting so how come it's ok?

It is a combination of a lot of factors that is for sure. I bet if you gave 10 people identical sets of equiptment you would end up with 10 different results.

I'm not following your LFS vs new arrival acclimation question. You should have to acclimate them in both scenarios. Any change in light is gong to take any coral some time to adjust.

 

[reefstarter]

good question , and yeah we are guessing a lot of this stuff . for a lot of people not having definitive answers drives them out of the hobby , for others its what keeps them in it . There are just too many variables . Im not even sure there can be a lab enviroment protocol to measure most of this stuff . As for the lighting over our tanks , I think we don't even have a full measure of that . in sunlight there are many wavelenghts , gamma rays , Uv rays , Infrared rays , a whole host of others I or even scientist don't know probably . I think for each person trying different things like leds , T5's halides par 38's etc there is a measure of success . for others its what you can do with leds and the color you can get . there is no good answer . If I were to get some leds I think I would run them at lower intensities and very slowly bring them up . like 5% every month maybe until I started to see something wrong then bring them down at 10 % and leave it . I don't know what you have yours set at paul , but you have a ton of them and are probably set lower than most . which is why I think they work for you . a good spread of light tons of it and not shinning like a laser at the corals .

 

[delta]

Actually you don't have to guess. You just need to take a good honest look. And steer clear of straying from the basics. Even worse not learning them to begin with. Sorry but this thread is a wreck and not helping the OP with his issue. Had he had a solid grasp on the basics he would have know the LED effect on his livestock.

Advice to all learn the basic and implement the basics. Run a stable system based on that simple principle, so when you make change you will know the effect. There is no magical mystery here, mostly people jumping to the middle or end of the novel so they are lost on the story line

 

[reefstarter]

We'll said Greg and so very true

 

[reefkeeper2]

good question , and yeah we are guessing a lot of this stuff . for a lot of people not having definitive answers drives them out of the hobby , for others its what keeps them in it . There are just too many variables . Im not even sure there can be a lab enviroment protocol to measure most of this stuff . As for the lighting over our tanks , I think we don't even have a full measure of that . in sunlight there are many wavelenghts , gamma rays , Uv rays , Infrared rays , a whole host of others I or even scientist don't know probably . I think for each person trying different things like leds , T5's halides par 38's etc there is a measure of success . for others its what you can do with leds and the color you can get . there is no good answer . If I were to get some leds I think I would run them at lower intensities and very slowly bring them up . like 5% every month maybe until I started to see something wrong then bring them down at 10 % and leave it . I don't know what you have yours set at paul , but you have a ton of them and are probably set lower than most . which is why I think they work for you . a good spread of light tons of it and not shinning like a laser at the corals .

Well your going to be surprised. I run mine near 100% . Ever since I started with LEDs six years ago I ramped the Sols and the Vegas up to 100% for 4 hours a day. On the hydra 52s I cut back a little on the whites because I think they are just too powerful. But I'm just guessing. I don't really know for sure. So now you can see why I posted that question. How is it that I can purchase a new coral, place it in my brightly lit LED aquarium and not fry the coral?
I don't think the OPs problem is his lights. Greg is correct about the basics and the problem lies elswhere or a combination with the change in lighting.

It's true the threads a wreck. Lots of fun though.

 

[reefstarter]

wow , I am suprised at that , and I disagree about the thread . I think there is a lot of good info on here .

 

[delta]

Problem with info is it should be in another thread. Clearly way over the topic at hand. If they want to discuss the finite details of LEDs they shouldn't be doing it in a thread where someone is looking for help with an issue the clearly isn't rooted from LEDs.

 

[mvallee]

hoping not to sound defensive but I would like to explain myself a little
I have had the LED's for 4 months ramping them up as recommended over 2 months and the tank is was doing well under them.
I have lots of corals doing well at different heights and spots in the tank through lots of trial and some errors, BTA has just split and both are doing well, Ricordea, hammer, torch, leathers, several types of Zoa's all doing great. and while I am not seeing the growth I expected Duncan and Blasto are looking really good with great extension and feeding response, I also have three brains two symphalia and an open and they are doing good too and I have heard those are tough especially with owning two dwarf angels LOL.
My next step was SPS and I kept my ALK and Cal up hoping to see growth. There is a lot of info on numbers and reading up on alk, yes I do ost of research like I think we all do, I felt the 7-11 recommendation was good and targeted the high side.
I bought the SPS from divers den dipped them and placed them in the bottom and raised them up to their current level in the tank over a three week period, when they started dying back I assumed LED's were too dim and lowered the light 6" as I had them at about 14" above the tank over a one week period, then when that made no difference I turned them up to current levels 15% bump over a 10 day period and started thinking maybe they were too bright and was going to start turning them down to see if I could see a difference. That is when someone came over and told me the issue appeared to be not enough light that is what prompted my questions.

I was really hoping to hear from other Photon owners on the forum that could offer advice on my power settings. Adding the T5 back into the equation made the BTA bubble back up and I see better extension out of my torch and hammer the frogspawn seems fuller too and the Birdsnest after 4 days seems to be less bleached looking but that could be wishfull thinking on that one, now I am thinking maybe not enough light, maybe not the right spectrum or mix, maybe my whites need to be higher or lower, really hoping a fellow RB Photon owner with a successful reef would chime in on how they run theirs.

From all the comments from successful reefers on here I am planning to go down to 10 on my Alk. and I will continue working on phosphates while keeping fish happy.

The other confusing part is, of the 5 SPS pieces I got one is doing good, looks to be a green slimer, it is encrusting the base and pretty sure growing, why??? when everything else in the same spots are dying.

I know there is no science to most of the questions, lights, equipment, parameters test kits, temp is even a point of contention, everyone seems to have different experiences. I read the forum everyday and even this post that went all over the place was interesting and I learned something though I have no real answers, that is ok there may not be one, for all I know 4 of those pieces were shocked in some way (yes I drip acclimated and dipped before putting in tank)

I will try SPS again when I have stabilized my Alk at 10 and nutrients are more under control.

Thanks for all the input

 

[reefkeeper2]

You don' t sound defensive at all and seem to have approached everything the right way. Your also right on about getting advise from another Photon owner. I think your problem was the Alk being too high combined with a change in the lighting. You could give DD a call and ask them what they keep their Alk at. If they have been keeping it closer to 8 or 9 you have your answer. FYI keeping ALK over 9 and having a low nutrient condition in your tank can burn the tips of your sps. If you want to see some stunning sps grown under LEDs check out Roberto Lopes tank on youtube and Reefcentral. Amazing!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4rBfbbismQ

 

[delta]

From all the comments from successful reefers on here I am planning to go down to 10 on my Alk. and I will continue working on phosphates while keeping fish happy.

The other confusing part is, of the 5 SPS pieces I got one is doing good, looks to be a green slimer, it is encrusting the base and pretty sure growing, why??? when everything else in the same spots are dying.

I know there is no science to most of the questions, lights, equipment, parameters test kits, temp is even a point of contention, everyone seems to have different experiences. I read the forum everyday and even this post that went all over the place was interesting and I learned something though I have no real answers, that is ok there may not be one, for all I know 4 of those pieces were shocked in some way (yes I drip acclimated and dipped before putting in tank)

I will try SPS again when I have stabilized my Alk at 10 and nutrients are more under control.

Thanks for all the input

It is good your are tying to rectify the problem but try and not get caught up in the hype of something. Sadly far too many people are doing thing they do not fully understand.

AS far as SPS. Not confusing at all when you understand the green slimer is a meat and potatoes coral. Meaning rock solid coral that is hardy and will withstand some abuse. So it is a great beginner corals/ this points me back to my previous point. Everyone want the beautiful corals but do no understand that certain corals are extremely sensitive. SPS covers all small polyp hard corals, montiporas, stylephora, acros, etc, etc. Acros being the most sensitive but also green slimer being on the easy hearty end of the spectrum. Like fish you need to know what your corals need are.
Fact is you do have a real answer, this is what I keep trying to tell you. Look at the corals the algae is growing around the tissue as fast as the tissue is dying. You test for phosphates is low as it is being taken up faster than you can test for it. Your tank is not healthy or stable enough for corals. The LED's might be an issue but not directly and only as you made a change when your tank wasn't healthy enough and your SPS took the hit, as they always will.

The biggest issue here is more should have recognized your issue right off the bat, but they didn't.

One of the things you are going to have to figure out is what type of reefer are you? Anal? will stop at nothing or more hands off and let nature take its course or somewhere in the middle. this is the thing you do not have a real answer to, but need to have an ans. then you can figure out the direction you need to go. one thing most overlook when taking advice is who they are taking advice from and what type of reefer those people are. It is the real difference between each system and the most overlooked.

 

[Frag Freaks]

hoping not to sound defensive but I would like to explain myself a little
I have had the LED's for 4 months ramping them up as recommended over 2 months and the tank is was doing well under them.
I have lots of corals doing well at different heights and spots in the tank through lots of trial and some errors, BTA has just split and both are doing well, Ricordea, hammer, torch, leathers, several types of Zoa's all doing great. and while I am not seeing the growth I expected Duncan and Blasto are looking really good with great extension and feeding response, I also have three brains two symphalia and an open and they are doing good too and I have heard those are tough especially with owning two dwarf angels LOL.
My next step was SPS and I kept my ALK and Cal up hoping to see growth. There is a lot of info on numbers and reading up on alk, yes I do ost of research like I think we all do, I felt the 7-11 recommendation was good and targeted the high side.
I bought the SPS from divers den dipped them and placed them in the bottom and raised them up to their current level in the tank over a three week period, when they started dying back I assumed LED's were too dim and lowered the light 6" as I had them at about 14" above the tank over a one week period, then when that made no difference I turned them up to current levels 15% bump over a 10 day period and started thinking maybe they were too bright and was going to start turning them down to see if I could see a difference. That is when someone came over and told me the issue appeared to be not enough light that is what prompted my questions.

I was really hoping to hear from other Photon owners on the forum that could offer advice on my power settings. Adding the T5 back into the equation made the BTA bubble back up and I see better extension out of my torch and hammer the frogspawn seems fuller too and the Birdsnest after 4 days seems to be less bleached looking but that could be wishfull thinking on that one, now I am thinking maybe not enough light, maybe not the right spectrum or mix, maybe my whites need to be higher or lower, really hoping a fellow RB Photon owner with a successful reef would chime in on how they run theirs.

From all the comments from successful reefers on here I am planning to go down to 10 on my Alk. and I will continue working on phosphates while keeping fish happy.

The other confusing part is, of the 5 SPS pieces I got one is doing good, looks to be a green slimer, it is encrusting the base and pretty sure growing, why??? when everything else in the same spots are dying.

I know there is no science to most of the questions, lights, equipment, parameters test kits, temp is even a point of contention, everyone seems to have different experiences. I read the forum everyday and even this post that went all over the place was interesting and I learned something though I have no real answers, that is ok there may not be one, for all I know 4 of those pieces were shocked in some way (yes I drip acclimated and dipped before putting in tank)

I will try SPS again when I have stabilized my Alk at 10 and nutrients are more under control.

Thanks for all the input

We are currently using 4 photon fixtures and have been for a couple years now. Feel free to shoot us an email info@fragfreaks.com to discuss any questions you may have.

 

[maximo]

If only we knew how his tank would have gone if he would have kept the original light setup! its like changing the flow in an anemone tank, everything is going to change and move around! I personally would never bring home a new coral and not acclimate it to my tank, weather its current water conditions, flow or light! Fish either they also need to be acclimated! we all need to stay focused on the basics. Just because your corals wont MELT IF THEY DONT ACCLIMATE FOR MONTHS! doesnt mean that someone elses wont in their completely different tank if they stick them 6-8 inches away from a light! This thread is basically someone moving too fast with everything, changing over from a fowlr to a reef, not getting nutrients under control, changing and playing and playing with new lights, adding more difficult corals and then wondering why there is a problem! I truly feel that the Leds were not the root cause; but with a poor quality tank everything is is teetering on that edge of a disaster outbreak! Why would changing intensites spectrum and distances to tank make things better? It is just going to add to the stress! Its like saying a stressed out fish is less prone to disease, it just doesnt work like that! We all need to follow the slow and steady mehtod or my favorite the kiss method! This thread is not a wreck you just need to sift through it! LEDs are an advanced light and a lot of people are quick to condemn them for problems when they need to set them and forget them, changing them is like changing the food for the corals, the first few months are going to be an adjusting period, especially if the tank is cycling or has a nutrient issue! I know you can successfully run them at 100%! greg from underwater worlds sps dominated display tank is lit by 3 radion gen 2 pros and he was who explained to me to take it slow with the leds!

 

[JasonandSarah]

!!!!