Lighting..MH 10k, 14K, 20K, actnic

[msargius]

I am so confused about this, I originally had 175WMH 14K and 20K mixed over my tank. suplimented by actnic .. I loved the color, but intensity felt a bit week. so bought 2 250W MH, which came with 10K bulbs. sorry to say it is so yellow...I lost all the colors on my coral....as if I am looking in the dessert. I searched the forum, but it seems that no one has answered which combination is better. I beleive that we need to focus on what the requirement of our tanks are as far as the color spectrum. I putting down few questions to you, and just let me know what you are using, instead what the theories are all about and what we should have done, experience is better than a hundred word.
1) For a show tank, which color combination do you have? MH 10, 14, 20, any actnic etc....
2) For a frag tank, what do you use
3) For a mixed tank, where you want coral to grow fast, but also you want good color...

can't have everything in life, but at least a point to start from.

 

[chew*]

With certain corals and different intensities of light placement is key, I have quite a few natural beauties under 10k........I use aqualine 10000 De bulbs, the display has 2 t-5 actinics.....the frag tank has none. In my application unless the sand is dirty both are a crisp white, the display looks whiter with the t-5's balancing it out.

Also obtaining colors/growth from corals cannot be placed solely on lights.......It's just one part of the jigsaw puzzle.

 

[JohnK]

There is no hard and fast rule for lighting. It's a combination/comprimise between intensity/growth potential and astetics/color. Add to that some corals need FAR more light than others, it becomes a very complex equation.

In general the higher the K temp the bluer the bulb and the less PAR (intensity, PAR is the thing to pay attention to, ignore watts per gallon) it will put out. Lower K bulbs will look more yellow and have a lot more PAR.

More PAR means more growth (assuming the corals you have want stronger light). The most common set ups are probably just 14K MH, or 10K MH with actinic supplementation (or the multitude of combinations you can opt for if running T-5's or other lighting set ups).

When you swapped you the 20K to a 10K basically what happened was that the corals were overwhelmed by the increase in light intenisty and may have seen some bleaching or washing out of color. Given acclimation time the corals would adapt, but still not look the same as they did under the 20k. High K lamps will do a lot to make the colors seem to "pop" out at you. 10K will make the corals grow a lot better but the colors won't be highlighted as much. Add to that that given some time under brighter light the colors will come out differently because of the increased intensity and growth.

There are infinate combinations. Best bet is to visit some other peoples tanks and form your own opinions. Also you can find a lot of comparative data on MH lights on this site; http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/


HTH

 

[APISTOBORELLI]

My answers for all 3 questions....

I think I've finally found the right light for my setup. I have a single 400W SE 15K XM bulb with 4-9W pc actnic bulbs. I went from a 20K blue line (way too blue) to a 10K XM (way to white/yellow) and just picked up the used 15K. I only have 36W actinic and the tank is an Oceanic RR 58 gallon 20" deep, so I was looking for a decent blueish color and light depth, the 15K seems to be just right. I'll post some pics later tonight.

My frag tank (30L) has a 175W with 2 NO actinic bulbs. I somewhat ignore that tank and the lower wattage seems to keep the algae down. I'll try and post those pics tonight too.

 

[afboundguy]

For a frag tank I would use 6500K bulbs (best for growth) That's what I'm going to use when I get a frag tank. Prob use T5 lighting.

 

[Aquaman_68]

IMO I think a mix of kelvin is the best for color & growth...problem with that.....(as any other advice I have) it cost money to have 6 MH bulbs & ballasts running!!!

10k = growth but a tad on the yellow side.
65K = even more growth but much more yellow.
13K = depending on Mfg they can be almost identical to 10K (AB SE)
20k = instant color but not actual coral color!! somewhat what an actinic does with VHO..(03) slows down the growth too cause they are not so intense...
HTH,
B

 

[Sokretys]

Are you going to get different colors of coraline growth with different K ratings.and if so..is it because of lumen intensity or because of usable color spectrum.

 

[msargius]

mix and match

well ok... considering a 75 Gallon setup.... I have the following ....old light 2 x 175 W ....15000K and 20000K and 36"T5 actinic light....well changed the system and I have currently 2 x 250W 10000K , also the 36" actinic light...the light also came with 2 x 65W 5050 power compact... so I can say I can play around for the special effect...wanted to create a dusk to dawn effect through I have ligth controller etc... My idea to use something which will provide fast growth but pleasant coloring....but not an expert on this... ..so my thinking is going towards the following setup, but I am not sure if it is the best ...maybe you can advise...

start the day 7:00am... with 36" T5 actinic light for one hour...
8:00am - 2 x 65W PC actinic (instead of 5050) ---is this a good choice...?? and switch off the T5
9:00am- 1 x 250 MH 10,000k
10:00am - 1 x 250 MH 10,000K

7:00pm first MH off the one that was on first is the one off first
8:00pm second MH off
9:00pm 2 x 65W PC off switch on the T5
10:00pm 1 x 36" T5 off

maybe I should go simpler... asking the experts...

 

[chew*]

I let the tank dictate when the lights go on, for instance they run a night time schedule in the summer due to heat

 

[jbundas]

I have 3x250W 10Ks + 4x96W PC (2 blue, 2 actinic) over a 180G and the tank looks bright and crisp provided the PCs aren't old (they need replacing at about a year). Since MHs are the work horse of coral growth, I wanted them to put out in the spectrum where they are needed so I didn't want to go bluer than the 10ks. Without the fluorescent supp. the MHs alone are too yellow for me. The blue bulbs shift the appearance to a crisp solid white. The actinics bring out greens and other fluorescent colors in the corals. If anything, I might consider adding more blue fluorescents to shift the light a little cooler and help mitigate the PC output drop as they get old. If I didn't already have the PC system when I built the tank and there was a good 6' T5 solution I probably would have gone that route, still with a combination of actinic and blue bulbs. I don't think a 10K MH and actinic combination gives the right color balance. Blue fluorescent bulbs really round it out well giving a good natural white appearance.

For my up and coming basement frag tank, I'm planning on just using a single 250W MH.....probably an older one from the main tank when I replace those.

 

[Reefried]

IMO you need a good combination of Kelvin rating for MH bulbs, like 2(150w or250w) 10k's and 2(150w or 250w) 14k's....or 3 250w 10k's and 2 400w 20k's, but a mixture of both will be great for color and growth!...And IMO for a frag tank I would use a 20k bulb so the coral that I'm selling looks the best it possibly can so its worth more, and because growth in a frag tank is not nearly as important as in the display, and can sometimes be a problem as far as available room in the frag tank, you would just have to make sure you dont cut a peice of coral that is soo small that it needs to be on life support in your frag tank...

 

[Sokretys]

Alright...so what im understanding is that the spectrum of light does not only determine color appearance and growth rate, but the color of the coral without any light on it as well(its natural color).

I ask this because ive got a 29 reef with the hagen glo 24" actinic retro and the K2 150W HQI Viper. The viper i got used and came with a 10000 bulb. I think my fire and ice as wel as my woods, wind and fire palys are looking kind of dull. they are good sized rocks..as well as everything else..so im not too concerned about growth.

Any thoughts? any input would be helpful.

 

[chew*]

Maybe i can answer your post with pictures............

This is in my 30g display with a 250w aqualine 10000

same coral in my 12g with a aqualine 10000 70w mh fitted into a pfo pendant IMO It needs a 150w...........

As you can see in the frag tank they actually have a little brown in them near the frills and are duller in color......I would say that dullness comes from not enough light not particularly the color temp of the bulb. As you go up in K you need to go up in wattage to get the same par.....IME even if you do get the same par with a 14k as a 10k growth will still be slower......

 

[msargius]

seems in the above pics...the top photo is your frag tank?

 

[msargius]

So to my understanding ... a 10k is a must for growth....so if I have 75 gallon, I beleive I need 75 * 5W = 375 W for softies and LPS.But for SPS I will need higher wattage up to 10W (I saw that in one of the coral farms) = 750W. Is this correct????

So in case of lps 2 x 150w 10000K MH, leaves 75W which can be a third 14000K.... or 2 pc mixed actinic/10000 65W
same calc for sps but with higher wattage

does this seem correct?

 

[chew*]

seems in the above pics...the top photo is your frag tank?

Nope the top photo is the display and the polyps are shaded and partly closed ( not reaching for light ), look at the frills..........you can see brown mingled in with the orange on pic 2 in the frills, it's not present in pic 1. frag tank pic = over exposed, display = under exposed. Whats most noticable and I don't see how you don't see it is that the second pic the color is just dull........

The complete polyp in pic 1 is really the same bright color as the frills.

The whole watts per gallon thing is kinda a myth sortof, especially when comparing diff types of light. For example my 12g with a 70w mh bulb which is more like 10g once you subtract the actual sump is built into the tank and no light covers it...... so thats 7w per gallon.......I wouldn't dare keep a clam on the bottom, I can't even get zoas to color up 100% but according to that rule of thumb I should be able to have one........

It boils down to par, which is affected by bulb manufacturer, ballast manufacturer, reflector manufacturer, water quality/clarity and depth of tank...... I prefer a minimum of 90 par on the bottom sides furthest from the light........which IIRC is the magical # to at least keep SPS alive.

 

[chew*]

Forgot to mention one last thing. The corals don't produce "color" persay, zooanthalea produce color to protect the coral, Higher the light source the more they "attempt" to protect the coral, More often than not this produces more color.

 

[msargius]

recap....so I can have anytype of bulb 10, 14, 20 as long as I can get above 90 par at the bottom of my tank....which (sorry for my slow understanding) will give me growth and color...I feel I am still getting it wrong.... or do I start with the 10k and add 14 or 20 until I get the par value required....
also when they say low light, moderate and high..are there an actual par values for these

 

[Joel A]

In my experience watts per gallon is a very rough estimate, according to your chart you need 10x wpg to grow sps which is not true in my experience.

 

[Aquaman_68]

recap....so I can have anytype of bulb 10, 14, 20 as long as I can get above 90 par at the bottom of my tank....which (sorry for my slow understanding) will give me growth and color...I feel I am still getting it wrong.... or do I start with the 10k and add 14 or 20 until I get the par value required....
also when they say low light, moderate and high..are there an actual par values for these

Dude, Your overthinking....

when you just let go danielson...you will succeed......


Believe in the force, Luke.....


Par is the intensity of the light...dictates how deep it will penetrate.... That doesn't equal growth on it's own....Many other things are involved.....Plus even with all the other things in check.....that doesn't mean high par will give you great growth...Some corals don't like alot of light intensity.....


Chill a bit & enjoy...keep your params in check, your maintenance on schedule & your hands out of the tank ......& last but not least..... enjoy

Your starting to give me the feeling your trying too hard!!!!


HTH with your sanity......
B