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More Acro Flatworms!!
- Thread starter One Eye
- Start date
OP
OP
One Eye
former vp of pr
Just to be clear here guys (I've been getting alot of pms and emails) The frags that I know are infected never reached my main tank. They have stayed in my qt. The 3 frags I did put in my display did not and still do not show any signs of flatworms. I have placed the 3 good frags in seperate speciman containers with airstones supplying O2 and some water movement, they are hanging from the rim of the qt, inside, for temp control. The 3 frags that are infected are still and have always been in my qt, where they will stay until dead, or until a proven course of action has been found by myself, or more than likely someone else and used by myself 
Now, in response to many, many more pm's and emails. I didn't want to go pointing fingers at people and didn't want to "rat" anyone out. But I think that people should know so they can do their best to avoid these pest.
I bought these frags from JMKeary, he is moving (incase you missed the threads) and selling his live stock. I spoke with James on the phone after I first started posting about the problem. It turns out that he had in fact purchased frags from Chuck about 2 months ago. He has found a new job and is making a very distant move so hasn't been on the boards much. I don't believe James knew that Chuck had a flatworm problem,I don't believe James even would have known what to look for before I called and had him check the pics tonight.
The fact is they are in the tanks of club members (maybe mine) Chuck got them from somewhere. Somewhere that many of us probably do buisness with also. Chuck has traded and sold frags, people he has traded with and sold to, have traded and sold frags and she told 2 friends and she told 2 friends .....
These flatworms just don't survive in some tanks (no one knows why) Other tanks they wipe out completely. QT your new corals. DON'T sell or trade if you even remotely suspect you've been infected. Blah, blah...you've heard it all before.
Fortunatly this tank is new and none of the corals are encrusted to the main rock work. So if it is infected I'll easily be able to pull the corals out.
Now, in response to many, many more pm's and emails. I didn't want to go pointing fingers at people and didn't want to "rat" anyone out. But I think that people should know so they can do their best to avoid these pest.
I bought these frags from JMKeary, he is moving (incase you missed the threads) and selling his live stock. I spoke with James on the phone after I first started posting about the problem. It turns out that he had in fact purchased frags from Chuck about 2 months ago. He has found a new job and is making a very distant move so hasn't been on the boards much. I don't believe James knew that Chuck had a flatworm problem,I don't believe James even would have known what to look for before I called and had him check the pics tonight.
The fact is they are in the tanks of club members (maybe mine) Chuck got them from somewhere. Somewhere that many of us probably do buisness with also. Chuck has traded and sold frags, people he has traded with and sold to, have traded and sold frags and she told 2 friends and she told 2 friends .....
These flatworms just don't survive in some tanks (no one knows why) Other tanks they wipe out completely. QT your new corals. DON'T sell or trade if you even remotely suspect you've been infected. Blah, blah...you've heard it all before.
Fortunatly this tank is new and none of the corals are encrusted to the main rock work. So if it is infected I'll easily be able to pull the corals out.
OP
OP
One Eye
former vp of pr
Thanks Flighty!
Steve, I haven't tried to do anything with these yet. But about a month ago we had another thread going about these pest. I was told by someone I have come to believe has a real clue, that no treatment known at this time has any effect on these. Some fish will eat them, they will not erradicate them. The only somewhat proven method is very tedious. Manualy remove all eggs and adults until you break the life cycle. If there is no tissue recession then you should be clean. They eat the tissue from the base of the coral up,and use the dead skeletal portion to lay their eggs on.
Steve, I haven't tried to do anything with these yet. But about a month ago we had another thread going about these pest. I was told by someone I have come to believe has a real clue, that no treatment known at this time has any effect on these. Some fish will eat them, they will not erradicate them. The only somewhat proven method is very tedious. Manualy remove all eggs and adults until you break the life cycle. If there is no tissue recession then you should be clean. They eat the tissue from the base of the coral up,and use the dead skeletal portion to lay their eggs on.
JeremyR
CRA
FWIW, they come off pretty fast in fw, so if there were worms present, the dip would have produced them in a minute or so, sometimes less. I dunno about other dips killing the adults.. I soaked them in lugols, coral dip, greenex, and flatworm exit all overdosed all at the same time and the adults didn't die.
Dunno why, but the flatworms really like tricolors. So do red bugs. What's up with that?
Dunno why, but the flatworms really like tricolors. So do red bugs. What's up with that?
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Glasses
I tried the light and the glasses and neither the worms or their eggs exhibited any fluoresence that allowed me to identify them.....these things have stealth technology !!!!!!
I tried the light and the glasses and neither the worms or their eggs exhibited any fluoresence that allowed me to identify them.....these things have stealth technology !!!!!!
One Eye said:
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
PLEASE give me red bugs..........
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Lol
Get your automatic weapon ready !!!!!
Get your automatic weapon ready !!!!!
One Eye said:
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Jeremy, FWIW all of the colnies I bought from you last month are currently in my frag tank and seem healthy and not infected....I really want to thank you for being so conciencious reagarding your products. Tomorrow I will move them to a QT to hopefully hold them until the infestation is over...one way or another...it WILL be over.
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Q: Does anyone know the scientific name for these worms ?
My wife and I just spent hours going over with a magnifying glass every SPS frag we had (every square centimeter). Washed / high pressure sprayed every one of them too. Found a few egg colonies. It was amazing seeing the size of some of these things in a clear container over a white background. Very easy to see them. Another way to find them is to hold the coral out of the water for about a minute... as the coral skins "dries" a little, the FW's look like small slime patches. The bite marks of them are a very obviously tell-tale sign.
We are fairly confident we eradicated / removed the majority of them. However, this will be a ritual every few days for us for a few weeks to make sure.
My wife agrees that by breaking the life cycle, they can be removed from the system. Eggs are very easy to see. If you find the eggs by diligently looking for them, the adults will eventually die off.
We are fairly confident we eradicated / removed the majority of them. However, this will be a ritual every few days for us for a few weeks to make sure.
My wife agrees that by breaking the life cycle, they can be removed from the system. Eggs are very easy to see. If you find the eggs by diligently looking for them, the adults will eventually die off.
ScottM
Non-member
The method I have found that I have been successful with:
Let the coral sit out of the water until it looks to "dry out" (you'd be amazed how long they can stay out of water)
You can see the worms as shiny wet dots. Simply remove them with tweezers.
Inspect all areas of the coral without tissue (plug/rock/coral base) for eggs.
I used a serrated Knife to actually scrap away the area.
Dip in Iodine and baste/shake the coral.
Then I kalk paste the entire area of the coral and mounting surface without tissue. Kalk paste kills the worms if directly applied as well.
The major thing to watch for is dead tissue and eggs in the branches of the coral. If they are present, then chances are your going to have to frag the coral to get to the area.
If you?re diligent about it, you will break the life cycle and should be successful.
Wrasses seem to be helpful in controlling the colonies, but I certainly wouldn't rely on them to eradicate the worms
this process will take ~30 min.
Let the coral sit out of the water until it looks to "dry out" (you'd be amazed how long they can stay out of water)
You can see the worms as shiny wet dots. Simply remove them with tweezers.
Inspect all areas of the coral without tissue (plug/rock/coral base) for eggs.
I used a serrated Knife to actually scrap away the area.
Dip in Iodine and baste/shake the coral.
Then I kalk paste the entire area of the coral and mounting surface without tissue. Kalk paste kills the worms if directly applied as well.
The major thing to watch for is dead tissue and eggs in the branches of the coral. If they are present, then chances are your going to have to frag the coral to get to the area.
If you?re diligent about it, you will break the life cycle and should be successful.
Wrasses seem to be helpful in controlling the colonies, but I certainly wouldn't rely on them to eradicate the worms
this process will take ~30 min.
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Another Method from The RC SPS Forum
In addition to the methods mentioned above, people are having success with another eradication method. For corals that are too big to remove or for a tank with many large corals, the method is to turkey baste every acro colony daily or even twice per day. This loosens the worms grip and blows them off into the water column where the fish on your tank will eat them or where you can scoop them out with a fine net. You have to keep doing this until all of teh eggs hatch and until there are no more adults.
As for my tank I will use both methods: For my frags and removable colonies, I will use the inspect and clean method. I will then place them in a QT tank. For large colonies or colonies that are heavilly encrusted, I will use the turkey basting method since removal of these corals would mean dismantling the rock structure. It seems that most of my fish relish these flatworms, unlike planaria. Best of all, my Copperband and Goldflake Angel seem to now be aware that there is live food in the tank and they are spending more time under the acropora branches picking off live food. I can't be absolutely sure that they are picking off the worms, but it sure seems that way.
The new Hardwicke wrasse is a beautiful fish and hopefully he will start picking of the worms directly from the branches of the SPS colonies. I think he needs a few days to settle in. I did not quarantine the wrasse for 2 reasons:
1. I bought him from Sea Creatures in Revere, where John told me he runs his water at 1.020 to kill many fish parasites. John is so fussy about his fish, and so diligent in his work that I trust I will have no problems with the wrasse. Also, wrasses are known to be less problematic regarding parasitic disease.
2. I need him NOW! I need him to help save my remaining acro colonies that are simply too big to remove from my system.
So far the wrasse is doing well and he is already eating mysis and even nori!
Tonight is the night to inspect, clean and finally QT all of my frags and small colonies and to take frags from large colonies and do the same. At least I will have these to start over if I lose everything.
In addition to the methods mentioned above, people are having success with another eradication method. For corals that are too big to remove or for a tank with many large corals, the method is to turkey baste every acro colony daily or even twice per day. This loosens the worms grip and blows them off into the water column where the fish on your tank will eat them or where you can scoop them out with a fine net. You have to keep doing this until all of teh eggs hatch and until there are no more adults.
As for my tank I will use both methods: For my frags and removable colonies, I will use the inspect and clean method. I will then place them in a QT tank. For large colonies or colonies that are heavilly encrusted, I will use the turkey basting method since removal of these corals would mean dismantling the rock structure. It seems that most of my fish relish these flatworms, unlike planaria. Best of all, my Copperband and Goldflake Angel seem to now be aware that there is live food in the tank and they are spending more time under the acropora branches picking off live food. I can't be absolutely sure that they are picking off the worms, but it sure seems that way.
The new Hardwicke wrasse is a beautiful fish and hopefully he will start picking of the worms directly from the branches of the SPS colonies. I think he needs a few days to settle in. I did not quarantine the wrasse for 2 reasons:
1. I bought him from Sea Creatures in Revere, where John told me he runs his water at 1.020 to kill many fish parasites. John is so fussy about his fish, and so diligent in his work that I trust I will have no problems with the wrasse. Also, wrasses are known to be less problematic regarding parasitic disease.
2. I need him NOW! I need him to help save my remaining acro colonies that are simply too big to remove from my system.
So far the wrasse is doing well and he is already eating mysis and even nori!
Tonight is the night to inspect, clean and finally QT all of my frags and small colonies and to take frags from large colonies and do the same. At least I will have these to start over if I lose everything.
