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MrX's 120G Build
- Thread starter MrX
- Start date
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MrX
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Yes, I'm waiting on two 120W LED fixtures from John at Reef Gems (http://www.reef-gems.com/). I was put in touch with him through a friend at the Fox Vally Reef Club of Wisconsin. He started out making them for himself and friends but has since moved on to full manufacturing and sale.
The ones I ordered (http://www.reef-gems.com/#!__evolution-led-main/evolution-led-120-watt) are 120W, 14K, black case, with dimmers, and some UV leds. The fixture wiring can be piggy-backed so less cables to deal with when using multiple fixtures. He offers a two year warranty and every post I've read on the FVRC board speaks highly of the fixtures and John himself.
My lights are in the shipment he is waiting on now. I should have them shortly and I'm thinking of bringing them to the March meeting to show off.
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OP
MrX
Non-member
We have water test! I repeat, we have water test!!! 
I filled up the stock tank about half-way, with the help of my daughter, and turned on the pump. At first nothing happened... even waiting a few minutes nothing happened. Not even my pressure relief loop right back to the stock tank. WTH?!? I unplugged it, checked all the pipes and such, and plugged it back in. After a short wait the relief loop started spewing water back into the stock tank! Woot woot! I then opened up the return line side to the display tank. Nothing... I had to turn down the relief loop side. MrsX and DaughterX yelled from upstairs that we had water coming in the tank.
I turned off the pump when the water level got close to the top of my filter on the input and went upstairs to see how things were going. No leaks at all that I can see at this point. Filled the stock tank up some more and repeated the cycle until the tank was full and the overflows started their part. So far so good!
Once the DT was full I plugged in one of the Sicce Powerstreams to see how it worked. Looks good to me, not overpowered as I was fearing. We spent a few minutes watching the little pvc shavings spin around the tank. I think the gyre is going to work well.
To get the pvc shavings out of the system DaughterX and I took a pair of her pantyhose and put them over the drain lines. Hopefully this will catch most of them while the system is tested.
The only real issue I see so far is that one overflow keeps cycling... it fills, runs as expected for a couple seconds, then I get the toilet flushing effect and the level drops about 2 inches. I tried adjusting the height but it doesn't seem to make any difference. The other overflow is staying very consistent and relatively quiet. What can I do to resolve this?? Is it because my drain pipes are 12"+ under water? Should I shorted them? In the stock tank when this "cycle" happens I can hear the gurgle and there is a lot of bubble/agitation at that output into the stock tank.
I ran these initial tests without anything under/insulating the pump on the stand. It seems very quiet to me for what it's doing. Our water softener/radon unit are louder in comparison. After a bit I put some drawer liner stuff (folded over) under it and ran it again, seemed a little quieter but not much. May get even better once I screw it down.
Going to leave things unplugged for a bit and keep checking the pipes/connections for leaks. Will head out to lunch and pick up another barrel and some more sand. When we get home I'll start rinsing the sand and maybe throw the heaters in the RODI that is ready and waiting.
I filled up the stock tank about half-way, with the help of my daughter, and turned on the pump. At first nothing happened... even waiting a few minutes nothing happened. Not even my pressure relief loop right back to the stock tank. WTH?!? I unplugged it, checked all the pipes and such, and plugged it back in. After a short wait the relief loop started spewing water back into the stock tank! Woot woot! I then opened up the return line side to the display tank. Nothing... I had to turn down the relief loop side. MrsX and DaughterX yelled from upstairs that we had water coming in the tank.
I turned off the pump when the water level got close to the top of my filter on the input and went upstairs to see how things were going. No leaks at all that I can see at this point. Filled the stock tank up some more and repeated the cycle until the tank was full and the overflows started their part. So far so good!
Once the DT was full I plugged in one of the Sicce Powerstreams to see how it worked. Looks good to me, not overpowered as I was fearing. We spent a few minutes watching the little pvc shavings spin around the tank. I think the gyre is going to work well.
To get the pvc shavings out of the system DaughterX and I took a pair of her pantyhose and put them over the drain lines. Hopefully this will catch most of them while the system is tested.
The only real issue I see so far is that one overflow keeps cycling... it fills, runs as expected for a couple seconds, then I get the toilet flushing effect and the level drops about 2 inches. I tried adjusting the height but it doesn't seem to make any difference. The other overflow is staying very consistent and relatively quiet. What can I do to resolve this?? Is it because my drain pipes are 12"+ under water? Should I shorted them? In the stock tank when this "cycle" happens I can hear the gurgle and there is a lot of bubble/agitation at that output into the stock tank.
I ran these initial tests without anything under/insulating the pump on the stand. It seems very quiet to me for what it's doing. Our water softener/radon unit are louder in comparison. After a bit I put some drawer liner stuff (folded over) under it and ran it again, seemed a little quieter but not much. May get even better once I screw it down.
Going to leave things unplugged for a bit and keep checking the pipes/connections for leaks. Will head out to lunch and pick up another barrel and some more sand. When we get home I'll start rinsing the sand and maybe throw the heaters in the RODI that is ready and waiting.
jeremy052274
Non-member
OP
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MrX
Non-member
Well, in this case, just an on-line friend of my Wife's who is into saltwater/reefing. I do have family in WI though, Madison area if I recall.
OP
OP
MrX
Non-member
Ok, I need a break. lol. Water test is going fine except for this dang noisy overflow. The PITA about it is that it's only one of them, the other seems to be very quiet/stable.
I tried:
- removing the hangers from the pipes to lower them
- adjusting the valve on the return pump
- checked the lines under the tank (seem fine)
- checked the stand pipe in the problematic side, seems fine. Holes on the side of the pipe and the top are all clear
- tried opening the "quick drain" ball valve to see if there might be air in the line, and then closed it
- figured it might be the "quick drain" T- somehow causing the issue so I cut the thing out and made the pipe layout similar to the other drain line
None of this worked. Still noisy.
My drain pipes run into the stock tank and are about 8-10" under water... could this be part of the problem? Dude at the LFS said that shouldn't matter when I stopped there today.
While I was at the LFS I noticed they had check valves so I got a 3/4" one and installed that in my return line. I also teflon pasted all the union connectors and such (except for the ones under the stand, will do that once I figure out the noise/drain issue).
Any ideas peeps?
I tried:
- removing the hangers from the pipes to lower them
- adjusting the valve on the return pump
- checked the lines under the tank (seem fine)
- checked the stand pipe in the problematic side, seems fine. Holes on the side of the pipe and the top are all clear
- tried opening the "quick drain" ball valve to see if there might be air in the line, and then closed it
- figured it might be the "quick drain" T- somehow causing the issue so I cut the thing out and made the pipe layout similar to the other drain line
None of this worked. Still noisy.
My drain pipes run into the stock tank and are about 8-10" under water... could this be part of the problem? Dude at the LFS said that shouldn't matter when I stopped there today.
While I was at the LFS I noticed they had check valves so I got a 3/4" one and installed that in my return line. I also teflon pasted all the union connectors and such (except for the ones under the stand, will do that once I figure out the noise/drain issue).
Any ideas peeps?
I noticed when I did a reverse durso in my sump it made a remarkable diffrence in noise AND micro bubbles. Something to do with allowing air into the drain pipe verses sucking it in with the water at the DT (IIRC).
Just what I bet you wanted to hear, MORE PLUMBING!!
This one is simple though. Cut back your drain line so you can dry-place the Y pipe before it hits your sump. Do a search on BRS and you'll come across hundreds of pics for this process. Want the Y to be a few sizes larger then your drain line size.
Just what I bet you wanted to hear, MORE PLUMBING!!
This one is simple though. Cut back your drain line so you can dry-place the Y pipe before it hits your sump. Do a search on BRS and you'll come across hundreds of pics for this process. Want the Y to be a few sizes larger then your drain line size.
Last edited:
delta
Impatient Reefer
I would take the pump feed that is pointing up inside the sump and turn it down and run it as far from your tank drains as you can.
this will also help so you can do water changes without having to turn off the main pump.
Since you are running Durso's upstairs it makes sense to run reverse durso's downstairs. Just make sure the water inside the durso exits above the sump water level. You might have some issues with flushing as you have probably a 7-8' vertical drop. That is going to depend on how much water is running through the drains. The durso allow the air and water to separate in an inclosed space and adds back pressure to the drains to help regulate flow
this will also help so you can do water changes without having to turn off the main pump.
Since you are running Durso's upstairs it makes sense to run reverse durso's downstairs. Just make sure the water inside the durso exits above the sump water level. You might have some issues with flushing as you have probably a 7-8' vertical drop. That is going to depend on how much water is running through the drains. The durso allow the air and water to separate in an inclosed space and adds back pressure to the drains to help regulate flow
OP
OP
MrX
Non-member
Thanks Guys!!
This morning I cut the two drain pipes back to about 1" below the water-line in the sump (with everything turned off). When I fired up the pump and things equalized the two pipes ended up about an inch above the water line. When I went upstairs to check the DT I noticed that the flushing was gone; still a minor gurgle, but it's almost white noise at this point.
If I cut back the return volume it gets even quieter, so I think I just need to figure out the sweet spot for return volume vs. noise. The noisier overflow seems to be getting more water than the well-behaved one. Just under the DT the return line splits at a T- and goes to each overflow box. I probably should have installed ball-valves there so I could have a little control over regulating flow to each side... oh well.
Should I continue to look into the reverse-durso? Think it will help more?
In regards to the sump output drain, I plan on cutting that out and replacing it with a larger screen (if I can find one) and lowering it. I'll also look into moving/pointing it towards the opposite side of the sump from where the DT drains enter the sump.
This morning I cut the two drain pipes back to about 1" below the water-line in the sump (with everything turned off). When I fired up the pump and things equalized the two pipes ended up about an inch above the water line. When I went upstairs to check the DT I noticed that the flushing was gone; still a minor gurgle, but it's almost white noise at this point.
If I cut back the return volume it gets even quieter, so I think I just need to figure out the sweet spot for return volume vs. noise. The noisier overflow seems to be getting more water than the well-behaved one. Just under the DT the return line splits at a T- and goes to each overflow box. I probably should have installed ball-valves there so I could have a little control over regulating flow to each side... oh well.
Should I continue to look into the reverse-durso? Think it will help more?
In regards to the sump output drain, I plan on cutting that out and replacing it with a larger screen (if I can find one) and lowering it. I'll also look into moving/pointing it towards the opposite side of the sump from where the DT drains enter the sump.
OP
OP
MrX
Non-member
Spent tonight re-doing my drain plumbing. I think 98% of my problem was the straight drop of about 8-9 feet from the basement ceiling into the sump. Raising the pipes out of the water definitely helped, but sloping the pipes and reducing the drop by 50-60% and adding reverse-dursos to both drains made all the difference in the world. I get a little noise if I open up the return line, but that's to be expected. Now I can just dial in what I'm comfortable with and leave it there.
Other things done yesterday/tonight:
- Tightened connections under tank/sealed union threads with teflon paste
- Built/installed the two reverse-dursos
- Re-plumbed my "quick change" drain. It's running right now draining the DT. I have the garden hose electrical taped to the fitting because the threads don't match up. Will have to sort that out later.
- Sealed all other union fittings with teflon paste
- Cut the sump output plumbing off. Need to find a larger screen and install that
Still need to figure out why the overflow on the right fills much more quickly than the one on the left. It's annoying me. Any ideas?
Some updated pics:
Other things done yesterday/tonight:
- Tightened connections under tank/sealed union threads with teflon paste
- Built/installed the two reverse-dursos
- Re-plumbed my "quick change" drain. It's running right now draining the DT. I have the garden hose electrical taped to the fitting because the threads don't match up. Will have to sort that out later.
- Sealed all other union fittings with teflon paste
- Cut the sump output plumbing off. Need to find a larger screen and install that
Still need to figure out why the overflow on the right fills much more quickly than the one on the left. It's annoying me. Any ideas?
Some updated pics:
OP
OP
MrX
Non-member
DT and sump are all drained. Got the sump loaded up with RODI ready for tomorrow. Starting to rockscape the DT now.
Tomorrow I will:
- get some more sand at lunch time
- finalize (hah!) rockscape
- add sand (Anyone know if there are any issues mixing Marco coarse with regular aragonite? I only have 40lbs of the Marco and probably will need more to get a 1-2" sandbed)
- start to fill'er up!!! Wootage!
I did learn an important lesson tonight: just because you put 5-6ft of coiled tubing into your sump to fill it from a RODI water barrel, doesn't mean it will stay there. Good thing I was checking it often or there would have been another 30-35 gallons of water to clean up.
Tomorrow I will:
- get some more sand at lunch time
- finalize (hah!) rockscape
- add sand (Anyone know if there are any issues mixing Marco coarse with regular aragonite? I only have 40lbs of the Marco and probably will need more to get a 1-2" sandbed)
- start to fill'er up!!! Wootage!
I did learn an important lesson tonight: just because you put 5-6ft of coiled tubing into your sump to fill it from a RODI water barrel, doesn't mean it will stay there. Good thing I was checking it often or there would have been another 30-35 gallons of water to clean up.
OP
OP
MrX
Non-member
I should note, the water level in the sump won't be as high as it is in those last pictures. That's just RODI I plan on sending up to the DT once I get the rock and sand in place. It will be about 6-8" lower, just below the Y's in the reverse-dursos.
I haven't glued the reverse-dursos in place yet in case I want to adjust the water level any more.
I haven't glued the reverse-dursos in place yet in case I want to adjust the water level any more.
OP
OP
MrX
Non-member
Thanks, appreciate that.
The megaflow returns are only 3/4" so I have to reduce from the 1.5" output on the Reeflo down to that. If you're referring to the pressure relief loop from the return pump back to the sump that's just there "because". I don't plan on using it, will keep the valve closed, but I had read that it's sometimes good to divert/relieve some of the pressure back to the sump. If nothing else I use it to empty some of the water out of the lines when I'm doing maintenance.
OP
OP
MrX
Non-member
Today at lunch I picked up another 40lbs of sand and dropped off my 40B to be drilled.
After work I rinsed all 80lbs, pulled the rock out of the tank, pulled out the eggcrate, added some expoxy stuff in a couple places, zip-tied a couple places (with a PITA!), and rescaped the tank so things are a little more stable. Then I added the sandbed; turns out I probably could have gotten by with just the original 40lbs of Marco. Guess the rest will go into the sump at some point.
After supper it was time to start filling the DT back up. The sump was almost full so I measured in enough salt for 100 gallons. Once the sump was down about halfway I emptied my RODI creation barrel into the sump (another 45 or so gallons). Added salt for another 40 gallons.
Right now I have one of the Sicce Powerstreams running to mix the salt in the tank. The gyre is working. One corner of my tank opposite the powerstream is bare from the flow. Will need to sort that out.
It's been about 2-1/2 to 3 hours now and I think the tank is clearing up pretty quick.
Next up is to get the heaters in the sump.
DT re-scaped and sand added:
Kids watching the tank fill (green lid to slow down the incoming water from the return):
About 30 minutes after starting to fill:
About an hour after starting to fill:
After work I rinsed all 80lbs, pulled the rock out of the tank, pulled out the eggcrate, added some expoxy stuff in a couple places, zip-tied a couple places (with a PITA!), and rescaped the tank so things are a little more stable. Then I added the sandbed; turns out I probably could have gotten by with just the original 40lbs of Marco. Guess the rest will go into the sump at some point.
After supper it was time to start filling the DT back up. The sump was almost full so I measured in enough salt for 100 gallons. Once the sump was down about halfway I emptied my RODI creation barrel into the sump (another 45 or so gallons). Added salt for another 40 gallons.
Right now I have one of the Sicce Powerstreams running to mix the salt in the tank. The gyre is working.
One corner of my tank opposite the powerstream is bare from the flow. Will need to sort that out.It's been about 2-1/2 to 3 hours now and I think the tank is clearing up pretty quick.
Next up is to get the heaters in the sump.
DT re-scaped and sand added:
Kids watching the tank fill (green lid to slow down the incoming water from the return):
About 30 minutes after starting to fill:
About an hour after starting to fill:
