My ICP Results - Looking for Insight

[TPhan]

The first time i looked at your report i only looked at the set point colum, all are green so i didnt look at everything else. I just took a closer look at all the numbers and saw that many of your elements are 0. Even though those elements are at 0 u have no red flags because their set points start at 0 for those elements which is odd to me. I would think that the depletion of those elements inhibit your coral growth. How long has your phosphate level been that low? With the test variations, .028 is dangerously at 0 to me. My first 2 years has been nothing but frustration with sps. Things didnt start to take off for my tank until the last 6 months. Looking back now, i realized all i needed to do was keep things stable instead of keep trying to figure out what the problem was when there was nothing wrong. The system just needs time to mature, especially qhen I started with everything steriled.

 

[Mike Lemming]

I would think you would see higher levels of metals such as iron. But other symptoms of rusty magnets could be algae blooms, the algae would be feeding on the iron. Lower PH, reduced coral growth. All of these will affect your CORALS. You use apex right? I remember that they had an issue with the probe holder( temp/ph/salinity/orp) rusting out prematurely caused by using cheap magnets. Anyway I would say you should be able to see the increase in metals from test to test. I use ICP every three months. You can look back from test to test to see the changes quarterly. Make notes when your tank is looking it’s best or worse and log everything. This will help you figure things out

I do have an apex probe holder although it's out of the water. I have my temp probe in the trigger systems sump built in probe holder.. I haven't tested my RODI system in months to be honest. The last time was when ICP analysis was still around. Because I always used ICP analysis, I assumed that every company did your RODI water as well when in fact, this is not the case. I recently changed everything on my RODI system except the membrane (that reminds me, I need to order it!!). Always reading 0 TDS, but we know that's doesn't always mean it's clean water..

 

[Mike Lemming]

The first time i looked at your report i only looked at the set point colum, all are green so i didnt look at everything else. I just took a closer look at all the numbers and saw that many of your elements are 0. Even though those elements are at 0 u have no red flags because their set points start at 0 for those elements which is odd to me. I would think that the depletion of those elements inhibit your coral growth. How long has your phosphate level been that low? With the test variations, .028 is dangerously at 0 to me. My first 2 years has been nothing but frustration with sps. Things didnt start to take off for my tank until the last 6 months. Looking back now, i realized all i needed to do was keep things stable instead of keep trying to figure out what the problem was when there was nothing wrong. The system just needs time to mature, especially qhen I started with everything steriled.

Yes, a lot of them are at or around 0 and because that's their target number, I assumed I was okay. As for phosphate, it's recently gotten down that low. Over the last 3 or so months, I have been working on lowering nutrients. In october, I was reading 200 (the highest reading) on my hanna checker and a blinking 75 (again, the highest reading) on my hanna nitrate checker. I am happy to report that now they are reading 20+/- nitrates and .04 roughly phosphates. The tank is about a year and a half old and half the rock is about 2 and a half years old. Honestly, I feel as if my problems stem from flow and lighting. My par has been pretty low for a while and I am slowly bringing that up. And flow is my arch nemesis. I have enough pumps to get a nice flow going but I cant seem to find the right spots. Currently I have 2 gyres on each end of the tank which creates quite turbulent flow in the middle, but very little flow on the ends. Flow will be the death of me!!!

 

[jango]

What are your alk and ph numbers?
I didn’t see them anywhere. How stable are those?
What changes have you made to get phosphates that low?
How often do you do water changes, with what salt?
what are you dosing?

 

[Mike Lemming]

What are your alk and ph numbers?
I didn’t see them anywhere. How stable are those?
What changes have you made to get phosphates that low?
How often do you do water changes, with what salt?
what are you dosing?

Hey Jango,
Alk was stable around 8 but I have lowered it recently and for the last week, its been at 7.6. The reason it has been lowered is because I took my calcium reactor offline and switched to 2 part (ESV) in hopes to raise the ph a little. 7.6 is just where it fell to and it's been stable so I don't feel the need to try and raise it to ultimately stabilize at a higher level. Currently, my ph has an average of 7.93 (per apex) but the average was around 7.8 with the CalRX.
Water changes and a little GFO is what I've been using to lower the phosphates. I also switched up my feeding from home made frozen to store bought frozen and pellets.
I have been doing water changes more often throughout the last few months trying to lower nutrients. I have a 40g water change ready to go and plan to do it tonight. I am using Fritz RPM salt.
This may sound like a lot of changes, however they weren't made over night. These changes have been spread out over the last 3'ish months.

 

[JPags]

I know everyone is giving you hints on your numbers but I did not see if you mentioned what type of sps you are trying to keep.

I noticed that bumping my magnesium helped my sps a lot. I keep it above 1450. Yours is on the lower side.

Some sps are more sensitive to swings, so stability is key. I found that going to auto water changes helped me with stability.

Make sure you try easy sps to start. I have some like red dragon and some birds nests that die the minute something changes and have others that I can’t kill, they have been through full tank changes and still grow like crazy.

just realize that once you pick a range for your numbers and keep them stable some sps will love it and others might die off immediatly

There is not one setting that works for every coral.

And we have not even talked about lights yet.

 

[Mike Lemming]

I know everyone is giving you hints on your numbers but I did not see if you mentioned what type of sps you are trying to keep.

I noticed that bumping my magnesium helped my sps a lot. I keep it above 1450. Yours is on the lower side.

Some sps are more sensitive to swings, so stability is key. I found that going to auto water changes helped me with stability.

Make sure you try easy sps to start. I have some like red dragon and some birds nests that die the minute something changes and have others that I can’t kill, they have been through full tank changes and still grow like crazy.

just realize that once you pick a range for your numbers and keep them stable some sps will love it and others might die off immediatly

There is not one setting that works for every coral.

And we have not even talked about lights yet.

I test my magnesium monthly and it's been around 1400 for a while now.
For the SPS, it's all "easy to keep" sps like birds nest, digi, green slimer, etc. My purple stylo lasted the longest (about a month) but has recently started losing polyps and turning white.
I think flow is a big issue in my tank. It's a standard 125 and having 2 gyres on either end creating pretty crazy flow in the middle, but minimal flow on the ends. And I have 2 MP40's I was thinking about putting on the back glass and seeing If I can create a more random, less direct flow.
As for lighting, I am running 2 Hydra 26's and a 52. I also have (2) 6 foot quanta LED bars, but turned them off a couple of months ago. Currently with the Hydras, I am running about 220 par at the top. I know it's low for SPS and I've been slowly raising it weekly, but even with a par of 200, that shouldn't kill SPS quickly. Maybe they wouldn't thrive, but they should be alive, right??
I sent Chris Wood at Captiv8 my ICP test and he sent me back what needs to be done for their trace element dosing. When I was reading it, it says my zinc is almost 400% too high. It's 2.00 and is green on the Triton icp results, but maybe it is in fact too high.
Would zinc come from my Fritz RPM salt or is that a heavy metal being leached into my tank from somewhere?

 

[dz6t]

I will go with what Chris Wood said.

 

[JPags]

I test my magnesium monthly and it's been around 1400 for a while now.
For the SPS, it's all "easy to keep" sps like birds nest, digi, green slimer, etc. My purple stylo lasted the longest (about a month) but has recently started losing polyps and turning white.
I think flow is a big issue in my tank. It's a standard 125 and having 2 gyres on either end creating pretty crazy flow in the middle, but minimal flow on the ends. And I have 2 MP40's I was thinking about putting on the back glass and seeing If I can create a more random, less direct flow.
As for lighting, I am running 2 Hydra 26's and a 52. I also have (2) 6 foot quanta LED bars, but turned them off a couple of months ago. Currently with the Hydras, I am running about 220 par at the top. I know it's low for SPS and I've been slowly raising it weekly, but even with a par of 200, that shouldn't kill SPS quickly. Maybe they wouldn't thrive, but they should be alive, right??
I sent Chris Wood at Captiv8 my ICP test and he sent me back what needs to be done for their trace element dosing. When I was reading it, it says my zinc is almost 400% too high. It's 2.00 and is green on the Triton icp results, but maybe it is in fact too high.
Would zinc come from my Fritz RPM salt or is that a heavy metal being leached into my tank from somewhere?

Unless you run an ICP test on your just made salt its hard to tell. One thing I would be careful of is taking 1 ICP test and reading a ton into it. I have had 2 ICP test 30-60 days apart and had weird numbers for 1 of my readings (Very high one test and normal range next). I know things will be removed from your tank over time but it made me use the ICP as a guide not an absolute (Also I trust Dong and he does not put a lot of stock in the ICP tests being 100% accurate)

I do the same thing with other tests. I dont make dramatic changes or try to solve it unless I can verify with multiple tests that something is off.

As for your lights it should not kill them, but any coral that is not thriving is more susceptible to die off. I find that when I can see the corals growing and spreading I know my tank is doing well and I try not to make too many changes.

Your Alk is a bit low for me. I was leaving mine around 8 and using Apex to dos 2 part but bumped it up to 9 because its very easy to drop below too far and the trident I use for monitoring can get off a bit if I get lazy and dont check. I also put the air line from the outside into my skimmer to keep PH up. I used a Kalk reactor to dos Kalk to also help PH but shut that off since my PH has been staying up with the air line.

I dont suggest making major changes but I know its hard when corals are dying you want to fix it quickly which can also cause issues. When I find issues it takes all my willpower to not make dramatic changes and bring things back slowly.

Good luck.

 

[Mike Lemming]

Unless you run an ICP test on your just made salt its hard to tell. One thing I would be careful of is taking 1 ICP test and reading a ton into it. I have had 2 ICP test 30-60 days apart and had weird numbers for 1 of my readings (Very high one test and normal range next). I know things will be removed from your tank over time but it made me use the ICP as a guide not an absolute (Also I trust Dong and he does not put a lot of stock in the ICP tests being 100% accurate)

I do the same thing with other tests. I dont make dramatic changes or try to solve it unless I can verify with multiple tests that something is off.

As for your lights it should not kill them, but any coral that is not thriving is more susceptible to die off. I find that when I can see the corals growing and spreading I know my tank is doing well and I try not to make too many changes.

Your Alk is a bit low for me. I was leaving mine around 8 and using Apex to dos 2 part but bumped it up to 9 because its very easy to drop below too far and the trident I use for monitoring can get off a bit if I get lazy and dont check. I also put the air line from the outside into my skimmer to keep PH up. I used a Kalk reactor to dos Kalk to also help PH but shut that off since my PH has been staying up with the air line.

I dont suggest making major changes but I know its hard when corals are dying you want to fix it quickly which can also cause issues. When I find issues it takes all my willpower to not make dramatic changes and bring things back slowly.

Good luck.I

I appreciate the help!

 

[TPhan]

Hows your tank doing now?

 

[Cooper2]

Stuck my hand/finger in there this morning, no shock. lol

If the tank was up to temp and the heater wasn't on when you stuck your finger in, you didn't really test anything. Be sure the Apex shows the heater is on and drawing amps when you test. Watch for this when you get your meter and test that way. It's worth a check of your outlet to be certain there is a ground path too, many just assume it and this can bite you. They make super cheap testers that look like a plug with no cord...probably free at Harbor Freight with a $10.00 purchase at times....lol
These cheapo testers will alert you if the ground is bad or if the outlet is wired backwards. Being A/C a swapped neutral and hot wire don't really make a difference, but this can affect some modern electronics in rare cases. The little plug testers confirm with LED's and it couldn't be simpler. If you want a little more piece of mind and a better system, get yourself a GFI in the circuit. You can change the wall outlet or get one that's like a little extension cord whip about a foot long. I like the whips because you can move them easily and a good unit will pop well before stray current zaps the tank. I think Home Depot has them for 25-30 bucks.

 

[Mike Lemming]

Hows your tank doing now?

Not great. Lost all the sticks that I purchased from Fragsgiving. I have a couple torches, and softies that are all doing fine. My guess is it is something mechanical, like flow. Flow will be the death of me!

 

[Mike Lemming]

If the tank was up to temp and the heater wasn't on when you stuck your finger in, you didn't really test anything. Be sure the Apex shows the heater is on and drawing amps when you test. Watch for this when you get your meter and test that way. It's worth a check of your outlet to be certain there is a ground path too, many just assume it and this can bite you. They make super cheap testers that look like a plug with no cord...probably free at Harbor Freight with a $10.00 purchase at times....lol
These cheapo testers will alert you if the ground is bad or if the outlet is wired backwards. Being A/C a swapped neutral and hot wire don't really make a difference, but this can affect some modern electronics in rare cases. The little plug testers confirm with LED's and it couldn't be simpler. If you want a little more piece of mind and a better system, get yourself a GFI in the circuit. You can change the wall outlet or get one that's like a little extension cord whip about a foot long. I like the whips because you can move them easily and a good unit will pop well before stray current zaps the tank. I think Home Depot has them for 25-30 bucks.

Thanks for the advice. I never felt any zap when sticking my finger in, although stupidly, didn't even check to see if the heaters were on. I also bought tester, but can't figure out how to use it. Watched a bunch of videos and do exactly what they say and don't show even the slightest reading. Even on something that I know has power. Either it's cheap sh** or idk what im doing. Could be both. I'm going to check out the whip and grab one. Thanks for the help!

 

[dz6t]

Are you using the same box of salt when all these happens?

 

[Mike Lemming]

Are you using the same box of salt when all these happens?

Same brand, probably not the same box. I've been doing large water changes over the last several months trying to fix things. Side note, I'm enjoying the Frag Garage pod cast you were on recently. Not finished with it yet but in time.

 

[dz6t]

Same brand, probably not the same box. I've been doing large water changes over the last several months trying to fix things. Side note, I'm enjoying the Frag Garage pod cast you were on recently. Not finished with it yet but in time.

Will you consider switching to another brand?
Hint hint, in the Frag Garage pod cast, I mentioned an incident that something blue…

 

[Mike Lemming]

Will you consider switching to another brand?
Hint hint, in the Frag Garage pod cast, I mentioned an incident that something blue…

I'm certainly open to it. I've been using Fritz for a while because it mixes super clean and the parameters are closer to where I want to be. A lot of these other salts seem to have high Alk. What are you using?

 

[dz6t]

I am using reef crystals,
I won’t worry about matching parameters unless you are doing more than 75% water change at one shot.
Only concerns for me is temperature and salinity when doing large water changes.
For regular water changes, salinity is my only concern to match.

 

[Duds]

I stand by Red Sea blue bucket I switched to reef crystals from it and had nothing but problems switched back and things have never looked as good. I think it’s a bit different in comparing our little home setups to Dongs coral farm because it was giving me too big of alk swings. If his huge colonies get some extra alk they’ll prolly just gobble it up mine shrivel up and say ehhh no thanks and die. I think when figuring out what to do with your tank it’s very important to scale it down to your size from whoever you are taking information from just my two cents.