New Sump Design Project

[Triggerfish]

i'm increasing sump to a standard 55g will be located in basement.
trying to decide b/t two basic design setups and the possible pros/cons of both.
think there will be b/t 500-600g flowing through

1. Input ---> Fuge ---> Return
pros: all water entering fuge
cons: no flow control in fuge


2. Input ---> Return <--- Fuge
pros: flow control in fuge
cons: not all water entering fuge

The fuge could either feed from the input or output.
I'm thinking of feeding from the output so as all the input water will enter the skimmer chamber first. in addition, the water would have to pass through 2 filter socks prior to entering the fuge.. i want to keep this one as detritus free as possible.
i'm leaning towards #2 with output fuge feed.

any issues you see or better design layout? thx

 

[JohnK]

One question would be what do you want to keep in the fuge? Do you just want cheato for nutrient export, or DSB and more diversity in there?

I've read (calfo stuff I think) that cheato does best with strong flow to keep it tumbling around and to keep if from becoming a detritis trap (option #1).

On the other hand of you want to keep a DSB in there, and or, encourage lots of pods exct. then slower flow would be better. (option #2)

Also a third option might be
FUGE > INPUT> RETURN, with the drain T'ed off so that it flows into the fuge first controlled by a ball or gate valve, and has a bypass that goes into the middle (INPUT) chamber. This way you could have the option of running all the flow through the fuge, but you could also adjust that flow if you wanted to.

 

[Triggerfish]

i'm thinking of putting a DSB and rock in the fuge and have it more of a complete ecosystem. i really want to keep the crap out of there. my last one became a waste depository.
as i'm typing this,,i also want to have some major nutrient export and think that s/b my #1 purpose for the fuge and that would be best achieved by fast or slow controlled flow?
i for some reason have been under the impression that these systems work best with slower flow..

the third option you mention would work as well and may not be a bad idea..only thing is i'm wondering if it would be best to have as much preskimmed water entering the fuge first??

 

[Triggerfish]

final preparations b/f putting baffles in place..how does this sound for spacing?

12" INPUT/2"BAF/1"BAF/10"RETURN/23"FUGE

skimmer going in input.
could i shorten the return section or better to leave a bit of space?
i plan on putting carbon in 1st baf chamber so it's wider.
thx

 

[JohnK]

Not sure I understood right, but if that meant 2" spacing for one baffel, then 1" for the second one, I would suggest 2" between both, or 1.5" on each if space is an issue.

I say this because if the baffels are placed closely together the water velocity increases and you lose the bubble trap effect. I've usually gone with 1.5" between baffels, but that's largely because that makes it easy to make gluing spacers out of 2x4's. The wider the baffels the better the bubble trap will work - to a point.

How wide will the sump be? 500-600 gph probabally won't be much trouble microbubble wise, unless it's on the narrow side (10" or less??). Either way, wide baffel spacing makes the bubble traps work better.

I think you could use a shorter return section as long as the skimmer fits, but I can't say for sure??

 

[Triggerfish]

sump is standard 55g so 12" wide.
the skimmer's not going in the return but the drain area.

 

[JohnK]

Oh, sorry, that's what I meant to say, skimmer in the drain compartment, not the return compartment.

 

[Triggerfish]

i think i may have a problem with the plexiglass i got..i think it may be to thin for the taller baffles..i guess i could fill it and see how it holds or is there a standard thickness you do not want to go under?

 

[emabie]

I used the standard 1/8'' plexi from HD on my baffles. If everything is equal in the chambers it's OK. As soon as you loose some water in your return chamber from evap you will see it start to bend. I glued in some extra reinforcement pieces, but I think i am going to redo it with thicker plexi. I think the rerun baffles need to be the thickest as that's where you will see the drop in water level.

 

[Triggerfish]

yeah,,i think i got the same stuff..wasn't even thinking when i was there to look at anything thicker.. was just looking at the prices.

after i got everything cut,, the next day for some reason, i began to wonder about it. the fuge baffle is 18" high so i may get another piece to reinforce it.

 

[JohnK]

If you decide you want some strudier acrylic altec in boston will have something for you in the scraps section. Look in the suppliers sticky on top of the DIY fourm. There's also another place in boston but I haven't been there.

You should be fine with 1/4" or thicker, 1/8" is pretty flexy.

 

[Triggerfish]

thx j, I'll check it out.

Jfreeman is 4 min from me at work..they sell the scraps for .85 lb..looks like i'll be redoing the baffling.

 

[Triggerfish]

yeah, they had what i needed ..1/4" stuff for cheap.
44x13 piece for 4 bucks.
glad i only glued in 1 baffle b/f realizing that it not only didn't look right, but it wasn't right.

 

[NateHanson]

Why are you using filter socks? I'd think you'll need to clean them a few times a week, and perhaps it would be much simpler to just vacuum out the first section of the sump at the same interval if you're having detritus problems. I found that if I kept my rock blown out, my clean-up critters well stocked, and my flow good and high, I didn't have any real detritus issues in the tank.

 

[Triggerfish]

the first section flows into the 2nd section which is the return. i am under the impression that there would need to be some sort of mechanical trapping needed to ensure none of that crap makes it to the return and fuge.

the socks would be swapped out every 3 days or so.
what else would you use to trap all the junk that's flowing in? maybe i'm missing something here?
thx

 

[NateHanson]

I've very rarely seen people using socks or sponges in their sumps. I never used them, and didn't have any junk flowing through the tank or sump. Occasionally it's wise to vacuum out the sump because some stuff will probably settle in a slow spot. But that shouldn't be so much stuff that you need particle filters. I'd look for the source of all that crap and eliminate the source if it becomes a problem. Overfeeding? Uncured rock? Need more cleaners?

 

[Triggerfish]

hmmm..if you're suspending particulate matter in the water column, where does it end up?
i need more cleaners,,but hard to believe there will not be some crud that needs to be removed..
i had a fuge b/f that became loaded with crud.. the pads on my sump now get loaded with brown fine particulate matter crud.

hardly feed.
rocks been in tank for year.
so you could actually get cleaners that will remove everything from tank including what the cleaners crap. ideally that is what i would like to have arranged,however, could take some time to balance that off.

also plan to have a pretty full tank of fish..so mechanical removal is going to be pretty demanding. i don't want any of that entering the fuge. swapping a sock every few days seems like the easiest way.
i still think i'm missing something here. but what could it be?

 

[Triggerfish]

just got done cutting the teeth on the saw for fuge baffle..couldnt find my router so used the table saw..
the 1/4" is much more stable.

actually filled the sump with the 1/8 baffle in and it bowed like mad.. waste of time there.
thx again for the heads up J.

here's the 1/4" polycarbonate in place ready for silicone.