Participate in the "ALL FISH HAVE ICH" fact or theory thread

[Triggerfish]

trigger,
you are wayyyyy over complicating this.

marco- perhaps there is some misunderstanding what the topic of the discussion was intended to be. there are some hobbyist that feel ich is always present regardless of anything..basically all fish have ich and it never leaves their bodies, it only causes problems under duress. that actually was my understanding of it a few yrs ago as well. i believed there was a dormant stage that existed. someone challenged me on that theory (Leebca) and i from that point on, i began reading..guess what..there is no documented dormant stage. I freakin made it up from thin air.. good eh?

once ich is present in the sytem there could be over 500 different reasons why it does what it does.. each strain has its own characteristics..some like to drink kick ich and some don't.. guess what the ones that like it die...i guess..nate reported success with the stuff..
1/2 the time light populations aren't even noticed. you gonna notice an ich spot on a LMB? never..

the discussion is with the proponents of ich "is always on fish" regardless of anything..if the fish is cured and placed in a new tank,,it will show up under duress...no matter what.
if the tank is fallowed for months and a quarantined fish that was pre-treated is placed in the system, the fish will have an ich outbreak under duress.

sure sounds like a simple enough arguement.. but no answers over there regarding how that happens..i would like to know.
i honestly have no idea how to elaborate to you any further than that...

 

[Triggerfish]

I guess I don't see two sides of the discussion. Everyone seems to agree that C.iritans is necessary for infection

ya got to poke your head over on the RC thread..did you happen to glean the comments over there?
you got TOTM dude informing everyone that keep a nice tank and you should never have a problem with ich? misleading, No? then ya got folks(one who i thought had some sense) talking about cancer cells and cells within fish will grow into ich cells? ha...
this started there..go there and check it out..
the discussion wasn't intended to be in this thread over here...i posted the link to merely inform of a discussion regarding all fish have ich theory and to post their experiences. You have to think there's some misconceptions here, no?
the thread here is going in a dozen directions and ends up having nothing to do with the topic..

if everyone here has the understanding that the parasite has to be present in the system for a fish to have an outbreak, then you're right what's to discuss? nothing. :d..

 

[Matt L.]

This thread is confusing...

I don't see what the discussion is all about

I mean, everyone knows that ich: a) can not survive in a hostile environment and/or b) without a fish host, end of story.

If the question is over whether a reef system can be eradicated of ich without removing fish and quarentining them separately, then no, I don't believe you can ever be sure the ich is gone, even if you don't see symptoms.

Matt

 

[Triggerfish]

I mean, everyone knows that ich: a) can not survive in a hostile environment and/or b) without a fish host, end of story.

You could QT a fish for months on end and keep a fallow tank for months on end, and if you introduce the fish in QT and it gets sick for some reason, that fish will get ich. just my thoughts

you're sure bout that Matt L. ?

 

[MarkO]

I just (finally) read all the posts on RC. Seems like only Jeffie believes in magic. The rest seem to support what Matt, me and most of the others here and RC that it can be eradicated, and it must be re-introduced. It doesn't just come out of thin air. No pun intended.
As for the others, as Gary mentioned on RC, some folks will never accept this no matter how much science is behind it.

 

[Triggerfish]

Originally posted</a> by trueperc [/i]
I am too a believer in that it can be present all the time. All my fish go thought qting. And there haven't been any signs of ich in my tank for at least 6 months, all I did was move a few rocks around to adjust some sps growth and both my hypo and achilles the next day had a few spots of ich

LOL... you must have overlooked that one..although i don't blame ya..does that make any sense to you?... you know the ich was resting under the rocks..he moved them and woke the ich up.. the movement of rock stressed the fish compromising their immune system and resulted in a visible outbreak..

for some reason these types of posts draw my attention..

 

[Matt L.]

you're sure bout that Matt L. ?

Yes.

With all due respect, what evidence is there to the contrary?

Matt

 

[Triggerfish]

Yes.

what evidence is there to the contrary?

contrary of what? evidence that everyone doesn't know "that ich: a) can not survive in a hostile environment and/or b) without a fish host"

if you read how some folks are responding that should be all the evidence you need to the contrary.. hence the nature of this thread.
you need to separate the folks that know ich is in their tank and an outbreak occurs as a result of it's already there and those that do not know ich is in their tank and are assuming it's appearing as a result of any number of things; from moving rocks, temp drop or simply walking by tank and sneezing.

 

[MarkO]

6 months is not a long time to be ich free. My current non-ich free tank has appeared to be been ich free since February, but I know it's likely present since I haven't the opportunity to quarantine all fish, particularly tangs, where I think it resides in.
It's tough to convince these folks they don't have ich free tanks. Like I said, it's not like an airborne virus. It doesn't come out of thin air.

 

[marco67]

could you pound a square peg into a round hole? well yes and no if you beat it long enough yes (and this ones almost there) but once it went through would it still be square?

 

[Valexia]

marco- perhaps there is some misunderstanding what the topic of the discussion was intended to be.


the discussion is with the proponents of ich "is always on fish" regardless of anything..if the fish is cured and placed in a new tank,,it will show up under duress...no matter what.
if the tank is fallowed for months and a quarantined fish that was pre-treated is placed in the system, the fish will have an ich outbreak under duress.
:

and my addition to that discussion was...you can't have a sterile reef tank, so you are always going to have ich around...
Introductions of new stock, rock or anything else ie any stress and your opening yourself up for infection.

 

[RichConley]

Gotta agree with Mark, et All here. You CAN have an ich free tank. Its just not really feasible.

My understanding is that the ich parasite has life stages that are fish bourne, water bourne, and substrate bourne. Thats the problem right there, if you tank ANYTHING from another system, you can transfer the parasite. IE, Rocks, corals, sand, macro, etc.

You also have to worry about cross contamination. IE you didnt quarantine the chaeto you put in the all invert tank you have, and then two days later used the same turkey baster.


Unless you quarantine EVERY thing that goes in the tank for 6 weeks plus, and dont transfer any equipment between tanks, you're going to contaminate your tank.

That being said, keep your parameters in check, and you wont have any problems with ick.

 

[Cheetos]

trigger,
you are wayyyyy over complicating this. Your theory that you can make a system is in theory correct. Can you keep the system Ich free? sure ...but it ain't going to happen! not without lab standard procedures and the most meticulous QT procedure, and there is just plain no one doing that, well ok maybe someone is but that person/ those people make up about 1/10th of 1% of reef keepers world wide.
That's it ...simple
The bottom line here is improve husbandry skills, reduce stress in the reef and your fish will be less likely to succumb.

Doing THAT! Ich free for over 2.5 years.