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Possibly Some Very Bad News.......
- Thread starter 3mrhythm
- Start date
3M -
If you have many Acropora in your tank, you're just extending the inevitable by not treating your entire tank for mites. You've been advised accurately by everyone who has responded (once Greg got the facts straight), but it appears that you've gone directly against all advice. The fresh water dipping does not work. What you may have just done is weaken that humilis to the point that it may indeed not be able to fend off the mites when they recur (which they will if there are other Acros present), and die anyway. Then you could be left with a dead colony and still a tank full of mites. What does that accomplish? You may have only seen mites on a single Acro... but they are not so particular as to live on only one Acropora when there are many in the same tank.
Of course, it's your tank.. your decision, but it's unclear to me why you would ask for advice, and have so many people pitch in to help, and then ignore everyone else's experience. (?)
bec
If you have many Acropora in your tank, you're just extending the inevitable by not treating your entire tank for mites. You've been advised accurately by everyone who has responded (once Greg got the facts straight), but it appears that you've gone directly against all advice. The fresh water dipping does not work. What you may have just done is weaken that humilis to the point that it may indeed not be able to fend off the mites when they recur (which they will if there are other Acros present), and die anyway. Then you could be left with a dead colony and still a tank full of mites. What does that accomplish? You may have only seen mites on a single Acro... but they are not so particular as to live on only one Acropora when there are many in the same tank.
Of course, it's your tank.. your decision, but it's unclear to me why you would ask for advice, and have so many people pitch in to help, and then ignore everyone else's experience. (?)
bec
I tried freshwater dips and it usually killed the Acro. Acros just do not tolerate FW dips well. I would be surprised if an A. humilis could survive a 5 minute FW dip. My experience has been that thick branched Acros usually do not do well in reef tanks. They are used to very high water flow and light as they are usually in very shallow water in nature. Still, I suppose that A. humilis might regularly be exposed at low tide, so it might have some resistance to being 'rained' on.
OP
OP
3mrhythm
Non-member
Bec ..i asked for some help on what i should do .. but i really like my shrimp and inverts and dont want to lose them .. and in a 90gallon stuffed with delicately balanced liverock i really dont think getting them out is an option worth exploring. The acro was next to about 5 other types of acros b4 i moved it and not one of the other acros has the bugs ... so i moved the acro with the problems and went for broke .. the coral already had some receeding areas (maybe because of the bugs?) so i figure y waste my time on something that is not doing well anyways .. so i dipped the coral. The coral did bleach .. but i havent seen one bug in two days .. and the corals polyps are extended and it seems to be darkening a little ... so if i need to use the chemical method i will .. but i have had great success so far with my tank.. never adding anything for chemicals ..i always treat things naturally .. be it freshwater/garlic/teatree etc ... i dont like chemicals .. and my tanks do very well ... and its a last resort for me to use chemicals ... like you said its my tank 
sorry to those who feel i ignored them ... maybe bec is the only one ... i asked for advice .. i weighed the answers and went the way i wanted to ... all things were considered .. its funny how people here get so worked up ... lol thanks all! as far as i know this is something relatively new to all of us and maybe i'll discover an easier method ... we all know reef keeping is nowhere near an exact science .. i'm willing to take chances .. nature is far more harsh than i tend to be...
sorry to those who feel i ignored them ... maybe bec is the only one ... i asked for advice .. i weighed the answers and went the way i wanted to ... all things were considered .. its funny how people here get so worked up ... lol thanks all! as far as i know this is something relatively new to all of us and maybe i'll discover an easier method ... we all know reef keeping is nowhere near an exact science .. i'm willing to take chances .. nature is far more harsh than i tend to be...
3M,
FWIW, there is a natural control for the bugs. If you see them later on your other Acros, supposedly there is a species of pipefish that will eat them. I hypothesized as much in my article (based on a suggestion from Bruce Carlson), but at the time I had no way to test the hypothesis since the species of pipefish that Bruce suggested were not available in the hobby much. Since that time supposedly there was a video that LiveAquaria made showing the pipefish eating the bugs.
The pipefish species, and the info from LiveAquaria are below. I'm not sure if they currently have them available or not.
Dragonface Pipefish
(Corythoichthys haematopterus)
The Dragonface Pipefish, also known as the Dragon Pipefish, Messmate Pipefish, or Reeftop Pipefish, is a long sleek fish with a body shape similar to that of an eel.
It is difficult to keep in an aquarium for the beginner, but is well suited for the advanced aquarist when maintained with other pipefish and seahorses in 30 gallons or larger aquariums. These pipefish will not harm ornamental invertebrates in a reef setting, and requires plenty of hiding places such as caves or overhangs. The fish use their tail to anchor themselves on coral branches and other structured objects when searching for food, and are very interesting additions to the home aquarium. The Dragonface Pipefish reacts poorly when harassed by other more aggressive fish such as: blennies, larger wrasses, large gobies, triggerfish, and porcupinefish.
The diet should consist of small, live invertebrates such as brine shrimp, amphipods, tiny grass shrimp, mosquito larva, and daphnia. It needs to be fed at several times per day, and is a very slow eater because of its tiny tubular mouth.
This species of pipefish has been found to consume the micro-amphipod commonly referred to as the dreaded "Red Bugs" that have now become prevalent in reef aquariums that contain Acropora coral. Red Bug infestations on Acropora corals have been shown to inhibit polyp extension and growth, while causing shifts or loss in coloration. After the pipefish is accustomed to the surroundings and tankmates in the reef aquarium, they will quickly seek out these red bugs as a food source.
FWIW, there is a natural control for the bugs. If you see them later on your other Acros, supposedly there is a species of pipefish that will eat them. I hypothesized as much in my article (based on a suggestion from Bruce Carlson), but at the time I had no way to test the hypothesis since the species of pipefish that Bruce suggested were not available in the hobby much. Since that time supposedly there was a video that LiveAquaria made showing the pipefish eating the bugs.
The pipefish species, and the info from LiveAquaria are below. I'm not sure if they currently have them available or not.
Dragonface Pipefish
(Corythoichthys haematopterus)
The Dragonface Pipefish, also known as the Dragon Pipefish, Messmate Pipefish, or Reeftop Pipefish, is a long sleek fish with a body shape similar to that of an eel.
It is difficult to keep in an aquarium for the beginner, but is well suited for the advanced aquarist when maintained with other pipefish and seahorses in 30 gallons or larger aquariums. These pipefish will not harm ornamental invertebrates in a reef setting, and requires plenty of hiding places such as caves or overhangs. The fish use their tail to anchor themselves on coral branches and other structured objects when searching for food, and are very interesting additions to the home aquarium. The Dragonface Pipefish reacts poorly when harassed by other more aggressive fish such as: blennies, larger wrasses, large gobies, triggerfish, and porcupinefish.
The diet should consist of small, live invertebrates such as brine shrimp, amphipods, tiny grass shrimp, mosquito larva, and daphnia. It needs to be fed at several times per day, and is a very slow eater because of its tiny tubular mouth.
This species of pipefish has been found to consume the micro-amphipod commonly referred to as the dreaded "Red Bugs" that have now become prevalent in reef aquariums that contain Acropora coral. Red Bug infestations on Acropora corals have been shown to inhibit polyp extension and growth, while causing shifts or loss in coloration. After the pipefish is accustomed to the surroundings and tankmates in the reef aquarium, they will quickly seek out these red bugs as a food source.
Nope, I tried a mandarin, no dice. In a healthy reef tank there is a good chance that the pipefish will find enough on it's own. I have a Jannus's pipefish in my 54 corner that I only rarely feed and it does quite well hunting for itself. Wouldn't be good to have a lot of microfauna competitors like wrasses though.
Antimony1019
I'm Addicted
I haven't heard of any mandarin eatting the red bugs. Why not gradually remove all of your inverts (as you see them take them out) over a period of time? This way you can probabaly get out most of them, then dose the tank. Throwing all your acros out if (and probabaly when) you get red bugs back doesn't make sense to me. If you have a hard time getting some of your inverts out there are also traps that could help you get them out. I would think that dosing with interceptor would be your last resort as opposed to throwing out your acros.
Even though the red bugs were not infesting your other acros they probabaly will over time, you just haven't noticed it yet. I haven't known anyone with a red bug problem that had it stay local on only one coral.
When you say you weighed your answers no one had advised you to do a FW dip, so it seemed you had your mind made up before even posting this thread. When people who had dealt with this problem advised you on what to do, you did what they told you not to do, and I think that is where some frustration is felt. Let us know how everything turns out, and best of luck
Even though the red bugs were not infesting your other acros they probabaly will over time, you just haven't noticed it yet. I haven't known anyone with a red bug problem that had it stay local on only one coral.
When you say you weighed your answers no one had advised you to do a FW dip, so it seemed you had your mind made up before even posting this thread. When people who had dealt with this problem advised you on what to do, you did what they told you not to do, and I think that is where some frustration is felt. Let us know how everything turns out, and best of luck
OP
OP
3mrhythm
Non-member
maybe i'll try and get my hands on one of the pipefish ... we'll see ... i'll wait a little b4 i do anyhing see how it turns out ... plus my corals will like a month or so with out a fragfest! . heh heh my montis are huge right now ... they get sooooo big way to fast .. teh monti caps double in size very 1-2 months .. crazy growth on those .. especially the purple one
3M -
I'm not worked up at all... it's not my tank... I was just commenting on what I saw happening and what might feel frustrating to the folks who have tried to keep you from wasting time, energy, or your corals' health. What I was eluding to is exactly what Stephanie summed up. You went directly against advice after asking for it. Simple as that.
As for natural solutions... I don't know anyone who had red mites who hadn't tried multiple solutions - natural and unnatural - before dumping a mysterious poison into their tanks. We ALL care deeply about our reefs. Such a drastic treatment as Interceptor was a last resort for me, not a first. I pulled every shrimp and crab I could get my hands on over a week's time... then treated. It was a pain in the butt, but worth it.
I hope your case is different from every other one I've heard... that the bugs were limited to one acro only, and that you never see another single one. Its just not what any other - also passionately concerned aquarist - has experienced... and learning about what others have seen and done, and why, is why I thought you began this thread.
Good luck with the recovery of that Acro, and your mite issue.
bec
I'm not worked up at all... it's not my tank... I was just commenting on what I saw happening and what might feel frustrating to the folks who have tried to keep you from wasting time, energy, or your corals' health. What I was eluding to is exactly what Stephanie summed up. You went directly against advice after asking for it. Simple as that.
As for natural solutions... I don't know anyone who had red mites who hadn't tried multiple solutions - natural and unnatural - before dumping a mysterious poison into their tanks. We ALL care deeply about our reefs. Such a drastic treatment as Interceptor was a last resort for me, not a first. I pulled every shrimp and crab I could get my hands on over a week's time... then treated. It was a pain in the butt, but worth it.
I hope your case is different from every other one I've heard... that the bugs were limited to one acro only, and that you never see another single one. Its just not what any other - also passionately concerned aquarist - has experienced... and learning about what others have seen and done, and why, is why I thought you began this thread.
Good luck with the recovery of that Acro, and your mite issue.
bec
Aquaman_68
too many gadgets to fail
Dude
I can't believe the content in this thread. That system is going to have to be nuked of the mites for sure. You will not get them out otherwise. Guess you will have to sell your frags with a disclosure that you have mites in your tank or have had mites in your tank & you didn't treat your system with interceptor.
I can't believe the content in this thread. That system is going to have to be nuked of the mites for sure. You will not get them out otherwise. Guess you will have to sell your frags with a disclosure that you have mites in your tank or have had mites in your tank & you didn't treat your system with interceptor.
Aquaman_68
too many gadgets to fail
scavdog said:Corythoichthys haematopterus
Beautiful pipefish, I might add.
Yes it is!!!
They're spectacular. Are those yours Joe?
I tried two, post mites... but they didn't last in my reef. Just vanished.
Also... in regard to them eating red mites. I believe they do, based on video I saw last year illstrating that fact. However, I wouldn't depend on them to irradicate an infested captive reef red mites. Seeing them in person, and how passive they are... no way they'd be aggressive enough eaters to clean out a tank of anything more than 20-30 gallons or so. I would still love to try some. Maybe in my refugium.
b
I tried two, post mites... but they didn't last in my reef. Just vanished.
Also... in regard to them eating red mites. I believe they do, based on video I saw last year illstrating that fact. However, I wouldn't depend on them to irradicate an infested captive reef red mites. Seeing them in person, and how passive they are... no way they'd be aggressive enough eaters to clean out a tank of anything more than 20-30 gallons or so. I would still love to try some. Maybe in my refugium.
b
Bec,
It all depends upon what you are trying to do. If you are trying to completely erradicate an organism, rarely to biological/natural controls work. So...it might mean that you would not be able to say frags from your tank were completely clean. At the same time, that might not be the purpose. Some people like the idea of a natural system, with natural controls. I'd have been willing to bet that a single pipefish would be able to control a 100 gallon tank's worth of mite-infected Acros, but your experience suggests that might not be the case.
I myself have no experience with this species of pipefish. I have had experience with four other species of pipefish however, and I would be inclined to try to get them to eat first live, then frozen brine and then frozen mysis shrimp in quarantine before adding them to a reef tank for the highest likelyhood of survival. Of course they might not be hungry for the mites then!!
It all depends upon what you are trying to do. If you are trying to completely erradicate an organism, rarely to biological/natural controls work. So...it might mean that you would not be able to say frags from your tank were completely clean. At the same time, that might not be the purpose. Some people like the idea of a natural system, with natural controls. I'd have been willing to bet that a single pipefish would be able to control a 100 gallon tank's worth of mite-infected Acros, but your experience suggests that might not be the case.
I myself have no experience with this species of pipefish. I have had experience with four other species of pipefish however, and I would be inclined to try to get them to eat first live, then frozen brine and then frozen mysis shrimp in quarantine before adding them to a reef tank for the highest likelyhood of survival. Of course they might not be hungry for the mites then!!
Hey Greg -
Yes, agreed. I love the idea of a natural system, which is why I tried the pipes... even without mites in my system as the target. I just love the idea of having these guys floating around picking off the rocks. The two I tried were my first experience with pipes... so I'm certainly far behind your curve. I didn't give them a major adjustment period in a lower activity tank because I was under the impression from my research that they would do just fine in the reef. From what I saw however... I do think that it would take quite a bit of QT, then training them to eat live/frozen/other - as you've described - and finally introducing them to a busy reef. The high flow we've all got going to keep our SPS happy is a real challenge for these fish! Mine could barely stay high enough in the water column to get anywhere near the Acros.
What I have read about is an experimental school of thought around keeping these pipes in small, low flow, low activity tanks where mite infested Acros are placed for 'cleaning' as necessary. I could see the pipes thriving in that kind of situation, but still... they'd have to be trained to eat more than just the mites, for their own long term survival.
Lastly... as you've already explained Greg, depending upon how serious someone is about being able to claim that their system is red mite free... again, I wouldn't count on these pipes for absolute certainty. If the goal is 'control' rather than irradication... that's another story, and ceratinly worth the effort of experimenting with this beautiful, natural predator.
bec
Yes, agreed. I love the idea of a natural system, which is why I tried the pipes... even without mites in my system as the target. I just love the idea of having these guys floating around picking off the rocks. The two I tried were my first experience with pipes... so I'm certainly far behind your curve. I didn't give them a major adjustment period in a lower activity tank because I was under the impression from my research that they would do just fine in the reef. From what I saw however... I do think that it would take quite a bit of QT, then training them to eat live/frozen/other - as you've described - and finally introducing them to a busy reef. The high flow we've all got going to keep our SPS happy is a real challenge for these fish! Mine could barely stay high enough in the water column to get anywhere near the Acros.
What I have read about is an experimental school of thought around keeping these pipes in small, low flow, low activity tanks where mite infested Acros are placed for 'cleaning' as necessary. I could see the pipes thriving in that kind of situation, but still... they'd have to be trained to eat more than just the mites, for their own long term survival.
Lastly... as you've already explained Greg, depending upon how serious someone is about being able to claim that their system is red mite free... again, I wouldn't count on these pipes for absolute certainty. If the goal is 'control' rather than irradication... that's another story, and ceratinly worth the effort of experimenting with this beautiful, natural predator.
bec
Last edited:
Armando
v 4.0
ThreeM 
Just to let you know my experience, I treated my system with Interceptor 6 months ago following Dustin instructions to the T. Since then I have never seen a red mite anymore and my acros are healthy and beautiful. Well worth the cost of losing my Cleaner Shrimp (although the shrimp may not agree with me
)
Armando
Just to let you know my experience, I treated my system with Interceptor 6 months ago following Dustin instructions to the T. Since then I have never seen a red mite anymore and my acros are healthy and beautiful. Well worth the cost of losing my Cleaner Shrimp (although the shrimp may not agree with me
)Armando
