Seeking advice for new tank...

[zear0]

Hey All,

I just set my 120 back up 6 weeks ago and am looking for some advice on where to go next...

No sump/No Refugium - Might add one but siphon overflows scare me.

Running emperor hang on filter with carbon and without bio wheels

I have about 90# of Fiji live rock

2 ocilarious [don't know how to spell it] clown fish that are about 1 inch long

A cleanup crew consisting of what I understand to be reef safe snails, hermits and an emerald crab. (The smallest cleanup crew that Coral Reef Aquarium sells)

NH3 has pretty much been undetectable since day one

NO2 has been undetectable for about a full week.

NO3 is at about 5 ppm.

Salinity is 1.025

My alkalinity is lower than it should be... 2.5 - 3 (is this scary low?)

My pH rides between 7.9 - 8.1 as the day goes by. I understand this to be low as well.

My long term plan is to support corals, but I'm still reading up on that to determine an exact long term plan. I'm in no rush to stock the tank beyond where it is right now.

I am planning to start weekly 5 - 10% water changes this weekend which may help the alk and pH, but am wondering if I should take other measures? (I have an RO/DI filter)

I am considering a calcium reactor but maybe this is overkill right now.

I am also considering upgrading my lights. right now I am running standard output flourescents in the hood that came with the tank.

Funds are running a little low at this point... So, my question is should I grab a calcium reactor or upgrade my lights now? I will do both but have to space the purchases out by several months. Or, is there something else I should be worrying about right now instead?

Any thoughts will be appreciated and sorry for rambling

 

[jovreef]

Well If you are interested in adding corals later on I'd concentrate on the right filtration then lights. It makes no sence to cut corners with lights or filtration when you are going to be spending avarage $20-200 on "A" coral!

Go with a sump and fuge! drill an anti-syphon hole about 3/4 inch below the water level...it wont syphon past that point and the sump will hold the water. For the love of god get rid of that bio-wheel... or use it as a fuge...(nano's do that..never seen a large tank with a filter fuge)

Your also going to have to go with MH, T-5, or VHO lights on a 120 depending on what corals you plan on keeping.

It does not seem like you have planned this tank out very well, Its going to cost alot to start a 120 reef or even a good fish only. Sit down and decide what you want to have in your tank and take a look at costs...You can get some good deals on used stuff here, or from Dr foster and smith. www.liveaquaria.com

Also go to www.reefcentral.com, there is a TON of advice you can get there.

 

[jovreef]

Oh...also... alittle baking soda will raise your alk/PH. I'd do a teaspoon at a time till you get it where you want it.

 

[~Flighty~]

Welcome to the BRS

 

[merk1_99]

I think you are on the right track towards planning this tank. Taking it slow. You will need a sump/refugium. Personally I would concentrate on the lighting before the sump refugium. Being one to have wasted much money on buying inadequate lighting. Its all a matter of personal preference. Sumps/refugiums you can build or buy relatively cheaply from this site. If I didnt get a good deal on a sump/refugium from this site I probably wouldn't have one today. And I was keeping SPS, and LPS, with a light stocked fish load.

 

[zear0]

I mentioned I am running the emperor without bio wheels... I do have a couple of carbon pouches in there now. Is it OK to keep it running with the carbon or are you saying I need to get rid of it altogether?

As far as drilling the syphon goes, I see how that works, but let's say the syphon breaks and the return pump keeps running? Isn't this likely to flood the display tank? I guess you could have a sort of stand pipe feed into the return pump that would prevent it from completely draining the sump/refuge into the display tank. Or do typical sumps and fuges all ready have a way to prevent this from happening.

Another thing I've read about/discussed is to have a refugium above the display tank. This way water can overflow from the refugium into the display tank. Thus allowing the contents of the refugium return to pass into the display without getting blended by a pump. Does this sound crazy?

thanks for the advice all!

 

[RichConley]

Do you have a skimmer?

 

[JohnK]

Hey Jeff,

The carbon is ok but you probablly want to change it out farily often so it doesn't end up getting used up and then leaching organics back into the water, and so it doesn't become a detritis trap.

I'm a little unclear on the drilling the siphon hole in the overflow thing, but I think Jov meant to break the siphon in case of a power outage or pump failure.
Jov, can you elaborate?

I like the overhead ref idea (just set one up) but there are other options also. You could look into the Hang on back refs, they are in the marine depot catalog.

jk

 

[zear0]

Whoops, I failed to mention my skimmer...

I am running a red sea berlin hang on the back skimmer rated for up to 250 gallons powered by an oldish rio 2500.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=RS1113

Its producing, but I think the pump needs replacement. Many people seem to be underwhelmed by RIO from a quality control perspective... A few people recommended mag drive power heads. The Rio is is rated for a flow of 780GPH @ zero head. I am considering a Mag-Drive Supreme 9.5 which is rated for 950 GPH. My only concern is that it may be too powerful for the skimmer. As in, the water flows through the skimmer too quickly and doesn't spend enough time mixing with the air bubbles. I've heard of one person who used the mag 9.5 on a berlin classic and was happy with the results.

Hey John,

I will change my carbon out this weekend. I'm considering just running the emperor without any filter media to keep flow up until I get my closed loop plumbed and ready to go. Does carbon really do much more than polish the water?

Am I correct in my understanding that among other things, the refugium will help alot with water clarity?

As far as the hang on refugiums go, I think this is a much more practical option then rigging up what I was thinking before. Only thing is I need to make some room for it . If I upgrade my lights and hang them from the ceiling, I could hang the refuge on the back side of the tank and move the skimmer to one of the ends of the tank.

So, my plan of attack for the next few months is going to be to upgrade the lights, get a closed loop setup for improved flow, then get a hang on refugium.

Thanks for all the advice so far, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[JohnK]

"Does carbon really do much more than polish the water?

Am I correct in my understanding that among other things, the refugium will help alot with water clarity?"

Carbon will help to remove dissioved organics and other pollutants, and also help to keep the water clarity up. Running a Ref will help to control nutrient levels by taking up nutirents and removing them if/when you remove macro algae and whatever else is growing. Running a ref can actually add to water yellowing because of the algae, this is probablly best fought by running carbon.

The only drawback / risk with carbon is that it will hold whatever it removes so often whatever nutrients or pollutants are removed can leach back or continue to decompose in the carbon. This would be a disadvantage compared to say, removing pollutants completely with a skimmer. Carbon can also act like a dirty mechanical filter, trapping detritis exct and allowing it to decompose instead of getting to the skimmer.

I would suggest running the powerfilter empty most of the time, and dropping some carbon in for a few days every now and then. Maybe carbon in for 3 days every 2 weeks.

jk

 

[MikeG]

Whoops, I failed to mention my skimmer...

I am running a red sea berlin hang on the back skimmer rated for up to 250 gallons powered by an oldish rio 2500.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=RS1113

Its producing, but I think the pump needs replacement. Many people seem to be underwhelmed by RIO from a quality control perspective... A few people recommended mag drive power heads. The Rio is is rated for a flow of 780GPH @ zero head. I am considering a Mag-Drive Supreme 9.5 which is rated for 950 GPH. My only concern is that it may be too powerful for the skimmer. As in, the water flows through the skimmer too quickly and doesn't spend enough time mixing with the air bubbles. I've heard of one person who used the mag 9.5 on a berlin classic and was happy with the results.

I am running a berlin classic (only because I haven't had the money to upgrade) with a Mag 9.5 and I have it throttled back with a ball valve to get the skimmer dialed in. There was too much flow with it wide open and the bubble production wasn't consistent. If you are going to keep the Berlin, I might try a Mag 7.

 

[merk1_99]

I run carbon on my tank thru my sump, in a canister filter. I weekly open the filter and rinse the carbon under cold freshwater to clear the detritus. And I dump all the water and replace it with 2 gals of fresh salt water. It is a pain in the butt...But to keep my reef up I do it.

 

[MikeG]

I run carbon in my sump as well and replace every 2 weeks or so. Haven't had any problems yet.

 

[jovreef]

The anti syphon hole is just that...to break the syphon if the power goes out. With a sump your tank will never get low on water because the sump will re-fill it...and you will refill the sump The hole will never get air while the pump is running to refill the tank. If power goes out then as the tank drains into the sump the hole will be exposed and break the syphon...

As far as the bio wheel...that is no where near adaquite filtration for a 120. I did not know you were running a skimmer already But definatly dont buy cheap to start with and upgrade later...you'll wind up spending more.

 

[zear0]

The anti-syphon hole makes sense... The lifereef and cpr's seem to have something similar to stop the overflow from emptying the tank beyond a configured level.

My only other concern is how to stop the return pump from flooding the display tank if the syphon breaks on the overflow.

Is there typically a section in the sump or refugium where the pump sits? Would this section be "walled in" to prevent the return pump from emptying the entire contents of the sump into the display tank when the overflow loses its syphon? I guess it might be possible to connect a sort of stand-pipe to the return pump intake so it will only be able to empty the sump down to a certain level. Thus, preventing or minimizing the amount of flooding.

thanks again for the time all

 

[jovreef]

Well answer me this question...has anyone with a sump ever seen their tanks 1/2 inch low let alone 3/4 an inch? So if your tank does not get low with a sump then why would the syphon break?

 

[zear0]

Well answer me this question...has anyone with a sump ever seen their tanks 1/2 inch low let alone 3/4 an inch? So if your tank does not get low with a sump then why would the syphon break?

Didn't you recommend drilling a hole in a u-tube style overflow to break the syphon in the event of a power outage? This is a case where the tank level would have dropped below normal.

When the power comes back on, the pump starts running and the syphon does not.

I am not saying its a very likely occurence for the syphon to break. But it most definitely will happen sometime... and murphy's law says it will happen when I am not at home.

I will reiterate my question: Let's say, hypothetically, that the syphon breaks and the return pump keeps running. Is there a best practice to stop it from pumping the entire contents of the sump into the display tank which will in turn flood?

 

[JohnK]

I totally agree with the concern on siphon breaks.

The cool thing about the CPR overflows it the airline connection in the U section. It is so you can connect it to a small pump that pulls a tiny bit of water all the time, I think it's usuallly connected to an air inlet on a venturi valve on a powerhead. With the CPR set up if the power goes out, the display tank will only overflow to the level of the teeth on the top of the in tank overflow box. When the power comes back on the pump should suck the air out of the U tube and ensure that the siphon would restart. I've never used one so I can't say how well they actually work, but I've heard mixed reviews.

You can limit how much water can be pumped from the sump with baffles but you really want to avoid ever running the pump dry, better to have a relaible drain

JOV?
are you descibing a u-tube style overflow box, or just a U-tube without overflow box (would sound super risky)? I'm having a hard time picturing it?

jk

 

[JohnK]

Oh, I missed this earlier.

With a drilled overflow you don't need a siphon. With a duroso or stockman style drain the drain restarts itslef, the water refills the overflow, the level goes above the top of the drain tube, then the semi siphon restarts itslef.

The CPR style overflow tries to make the same thing happen but it relies on a powerhead or other small pump that could fail. It'l like a 97% safe vs. 99.8 % safe.

 

[nitrofish]

I use a cpr on my freshwater tank with the pump that sucks the air out. I haven't had a problem yet, and its been a long time