SPS Keepers, I have BAD NEWS for you

[JeremyR]

All I know is that the people I talked to gave up and threw everything out. I have not had a chance to try anything myself, but am interested in experimenting if mike or someone can provide an infected coral.

 

[NanoReefer]

I don't really have any SPS but this is concerning none the less. Here is a poorly translated page from a German fellow who has successfully treated this problem. I followed another link from the first link in the original post.

The translator
http://www.korallenriff.de/acrop-girz.html

Copy the URL from the webpage and insert it in the translator, It is a hard read because the flatworms are called vortex worms, and there are many others like that example. I don't have SPS but I hate to see other club members losing valued corals.

Good luck guys

 

[~Flighty~]

For the lazy:​

[size=+1]A report to the Acroproa vortex worm,[/size]
[size=-1]and like Alexander Girz of troubles became ago.[/size]


[size=-1]Mailkontakt: Alexander Girz[/size]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]ICH had at that time a rather strong infestation with this vortex worm. Bathing of the korallen was only very reduced possible for me, since the sticks had grown together strongly with the decoration. I became troubles gentleman nevertheless, without losing a stick. How the functioned, which I would like to describe here.[/size][/font]


[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]I located Formosa vortex worm on the basis the following characteristics:[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]The fabric of the korallen colors itself from the basis from brighter and works veined. At the korallenstoecken the skeleton of the korallen gleams through.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]A stricken koralle...[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]The stricken places at the skeleton become later greenish (algae). A further factor is that recognizes the Laichpakete. These arise after to my experience only at the basis of the korallen, at which the fabric is already completely distant. Thus best always from down on the Korallenaeste or the basis look. The Laichpakete is usually near at branchings.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]the clutch of eggs.... (well to see because the koralle is already white)[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]the small vortex worms those for our animals to create in such a way make[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]I have first o.g. Parameter stabilizes. This took about one week. At the same time I have to proportion during one period of approximately two months, begun, Lugol iodine solution 1% in a dose from daily 5 ml on 1000 litres water directly in the basin.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]It concerns here a Lugol solution of the companies notices. It is available in the following bundles.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]250 ml[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]1000 ml[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]2500 ml[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Enclosed the data of the bottle print:[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Lugols iodine solution for Mikrosokopie[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Iodine potassium iodine solution 1 %[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Merck number 1.09261.1000[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]The end number 1000 gbit the bundle size on. Here it concerns 1000 ml a bottle. If it should be 250 ml, then the number 1.09262.0250 etc. reads.[/size][/font]


[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]A change in fish, korallen, water equivalents or alga vegetation could not be noticed during this time. I would like to still point out that my basin is very well occupied and strongly is abgeschaeumt. This surely promotes the faster dismantling/transformation of the Lugol iodine solution. I could not determine any side effects up to the reinforcement of the green colouring with all green Steinkorallen during the treatment - also not with the fish. I can only imagine that perhaps with basins without skimers/very small trimming with Steinkorallen could be to high the dose.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]For support still another Sechsstreifenlippfisch with was used.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]The result surprised me. After approximately 8 weeks no vortex worms were more visible. This measure helped with all Korallenarten. I have about 50 different SPS korallen in my basin. On none of the kinds the vortex worm emerged up to the today's day again. I must however also say that I in principle each new folder before used exactly examine and also in an iodine solution bathe.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]I think for becoming around such diseases gentleman, am it at the most important one to create only once again "optimal" conditions for the korallen thus the values stablisieren.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]The treatment during a longer period is important, in order to damage also the vortex worms slipped again. Also the sinking of the P04 of content by means of Rowaphos might positively affect itself. If the korallen are exposed only once again to optimal aquaristischen water equivalents, apparently the "self-protection" is stabilized by the korallen again. An occupied one of the korallen with Korallenkrabben as "prophylaxis" affects itself likewise positively.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]The moreover I also still admit to today one ml per 1000 litres/daily Lugol iodine solution.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]My water equivalents during the treatment:[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]NO3: 5 mg (Hana)[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]PO4: 0.04 mg (Hana)[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Salzgehalt: 1,023[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]PH: 7,8 - 8.3 (digitally)[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Mg: 1290 mg (Salifert)[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Approx.: 500 mg (Salifert)[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]KH: 8 (Salifert)[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Thus:[/size][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Water equivalents (approx./mg/PO4/NO3/KH) stabilize[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Addition of one percent Lugol iodine solution: 5 ml/1000 litres daily over 2 - 3 months[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Suitable fish for containment began[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]To the prophylaxis further 1 ml one percent Lugol iodine solution: on 1000 litres daily[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Korallenkrabben[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Reference to strong Abschaeumung and seal trimming with Steinkorallen (dosing quantity)[/size][/font]


​

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Update from March 2003:[/size][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]After some time passed and the development of the Meerwasseraquaristik do not stand remained, I would like to again take up this report and to note from current view still some notes in addition.[/size][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]After I set up a new basin in September that exclusively with SPS korallen occupied became, I had again brought myself in these trouble spirit. At different Acropora korallen from it substantial damage and the vermehrung resulted preceded rapidly, so that I was forced to dam these.[/size][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]The main difference to my before existing basin, is that that it is very nutrient-poor operated. I.e. the water knows almost no loads at PO4 and NO3 up. Trace elements are used only very rarely, so that the natural color training with the korallen remains and to brown does not change.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]This brown colouring results primarily from the density of the Zooxanthellen in the fabric. If many nutrients are present, then the growth of the Zooxanthellen is favoured. The result presents itself in the colouring of the korallen with a uniform brown.[/size][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

.....
​

 

[~Flighty~]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Continued...[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1][/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1][/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Different elements - among other things also the addition of iodine are apart from many other parameters for it responsible that the density of the Zooxanthellen in the fabric strengthened. From today's view I would not use this working method in my current basin no more, since this would affect the colouring of the SPS very negatively.[/size][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]At the same time in order to offer to the infestation nevertheless stop am I in addition changed over 4 Sechstreifenlippfi (Pseudocheilinus hexatenia) to be used. The fish are constantly thereby employ the korallen to search and parasits graze. Within few weeks desired success showed up. The infestation minimized itself and disappeared automatically. Up to the today's day I could determine no infestation more. That is past about 1 year. The topic was urgently discussed in the sea water forum(www.meerwasserforum.com). The experiences won thereby cover themselves to 100 % with the meinigen.[/size][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]The application at that time of this method proved with me as extremely effective. Here however everyone must decide, how important to it the colouring of the SPS korallen is.[/size][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]It should not be forgotten however that the biological fight of these troubles is surely the better way.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Alexander Girz[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]March 2003[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][/font][font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Note by Robert: I consider reports of this kind very very important to collect straight around further information about this kind of troubles of giving and these then by as many Aquarianer as possible further. The animals will thank it us.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]We would like to support each other, thank you therefore very cordially Alexander, but here also all different us always so well.[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]A thick thanks also at Lars Sebralla, which placed us the photo from the clutch of eggs to the order: -)[/size][/font] [font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]Manuela and Robert[/size][/font]
[font=Arial,Helvetica][size=-1]on www.Korallenriff.de in June 2001[/size][/font]

 

[Mike A]

Cindy, thanks for posting that.

Observation is the short term plan. I don't have a six-line wrasse, but did pick up a possum wrasse a week or so ago from Roby. That fish is still in quarantine, but will be added this weekend. My hope is that the existing fish allow the possum wrasse to do his thing and not be harrassed to the point where it can't pick off those flatworms.

I'm not quite sure what to do right now. I'll probably wait a few days and dip the two known infected sps again. If I find more flatworms, we'll know that the dip isn't 100% successful. I used a capful of the Seachem reefdip to about 16-20oz water and left the corals in there for about 5-7 minutes.

Jeremy, I wish you weren't so darned far away or I'd bring one of the known infected sps down to you, but with the snow coming - it's just not possible anytime soon.


I'll try and snap some pics and get them posted so others can see the tell tale signs.

 

[JeremyR]

For regular flatworms, various halichoeres wrasses are also exremely effective predators, far better than the sixline family. But it's not 100%, some individuals won't eat them, and who knows if they eat these ones. They do eat ornamental shrimp.

 

[Mike A]

Thanks Jeremy. I had read about folks having some luck with the wetmorella species of wrasse, so I thought I'd try the possum (wetmorella nigropinnata).

 

[Greg Hiller]

>How long do you suggest quarantine Greg<

I don't have any experience with these guys, and did not read slowly enough the funky translation to get an idea as to how long it takes for these to incubate/hatch. For a new coral, if the flatworms are suseptible to the iodine bath I'd think that doing the bath, putting the coral into quarantine until the eggs are likely to have hatched, and then doing a second iodine bath might be successful.

 

[~Flighty~]

Is there any way to buy or breed the acro crabs, short of just getting lucky at the fish store?

Edit: you know what I meen. I have yet to get lucky in a fish store.

 

[scavdog]

hey aren't common on wild colonies.. they've been in the hobby for awhile, and people get them in trades.

Monkeyboy from Aquadreams lost a beautiful tank to these SOB's a year or 2 ago. At the time, I was dumbfounded. It's unfortunate that they have made there was around here.

 

[karl wagner]

soft corals look better all the time...

 

[Scuba_Dave]

Is there any way to buy or breed the acro crabs, short of just getting lucky at the fish store?
Edit: you know what I meen. I have yet to get lucky in a fish store.

That's not what Eliot says.....

another pest to worry about....

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Hey Mike, sorry to hear about your troubles.....I also have had some problems that may be related to the "Red Mite Treatment" with regards to 2 beautiful deep purple acro colonies that I had for around 2 years. The bigger of the two bleached from the bottom up just recently, a few days after the treatment. It was a complete loss, but I saved a few frags and they are doing ok. The other smaller colony has a few bleached tips and I am watching it closely.

At first, I suspected that these corals may have gotten stressed due to the huge water changes and the large amount of carbon I used after the treatment. I did not suspect that these corals could be infested with the predatory flatworms. Tonight I will have to examine the frags from the large colony and the smaller colony for these worms. Since these are both wild colonies, they could be infested....I hope not though, the friggin red bugs are bad enough...and now this?

 

[denvig]

Sorry to hear this Mike I hope you get this under control. Please keep us posted, good luck.

 

[Mike A]

Thanks Dennis.

Chuck, I haven't lost any corals to the red mite treatment. Were there any major parameter differences between your system water and the water you used to perform the big water changes after the treatment ?

FWIW, both of the acro colonies looked horrible after the iodine bath yesterday. Today, they seem to be better - the colors are coming back slowly. I went heavy on the kalk drip last night, not sure if that was a benefit, but I want the alk up high to give these corals energy to recover. None of the other acros in my tank are showing any signs of trouble, another observation that leads me to believe that the flatworms pretty much stay locally (all three acros affected were in close proximity to one another). Of course, I'll be able to verify this over time.

 

[reefnroll]

Flighty -

To address the question your raise about acro crabs...

I think they probably do breed in our tanks. I often see some of mine full of eggs.. looking ready to burst. But like every other crab,shrimp,small snail.... I assume the majority of the offspring are readily snapped up as available food by corals and fish.
A few years ago when I got into the hobby many people were scraping these crabs OUT of their beautiful acro colonies... thinking they were predators. That never made sense to me, honestly, since most of the colonies they came in on had obviously been thriving in the wild. I always kept mine, and still pick up strays whenever I can.

Like trying to rear every other delicate species, it think would probably take a dedicated tank with no predators, huge acro colonies for them to inhabit as numbers increased, and 'friendly' filtration to raise the larvae. Even then... it seems that acro crabs may keep the worms at bey (as Mike experienced) but not clear the tank of them, which would be the ultimate goal (at least that would be my ultimate goal).

bec

 

[Ifferfish]

Mike, sorry to hear of your troubles, good luck with whatever you do.

 

[Greg Hiller]

The Acro crabs (as is true for a great number of marine fish and invertebrates) likely undergo a prolonged larval planktonic stage. This larval stage might last for a few weeks. At the end of the larval stage the critters swim down to the surface of the coral reef and find their niche in the environment. Our tanks are particularly difficult for planktonic critters to survive in. All the surface water removal (overflows) and the skimming make things difficult.