sump project (finally)

[Joel A]

Ok, i've finally got my feet wet and am going to sump my 75 gallon.

The stand for the tank has a center brace in it, so i can't put anything larger than a 20g tank into the stand because nothing else will fit. My thought was to put two twenty gallons next to each other, but that won't fit length wise either, so i'm going to use a 20 gallon high and a 10 gallon tank together as the total sump volume.

The plan is to have the water drain from the display tank to the 20 gallon high, and then get pumped into the skimmer... then after that run through the ten gallon tank which will be a fuge. Then run from the fuge back to the display tank.... and i already have some questions.

My first question is what is the best way to get the water from the twenty gallon tank to the ten gallon tank? My first though was to drill the twenty gallon and just run pvc from one tank to the other, but this is kind of a pain... my other thought was too take another small pump, and pump the water from the 20 gallon to the ten gallon. Which one of these sounds better?

A question linked to the above question is if i'm going to pump from the twenty to the ten, what gph should i look for in a pump? I'm assuming low, but someone care to give me a ballpark? Not sure how you would go about figuring this, but if it helps too know, the return pump from the fuge to the tank will be 950 gph, before head loss.


Yet another question i have is how to determine how high to fill the sump tank and the fuge tank. I want enough water for it to be substantial, but also want to factor in that if power is lost, the main tank will be drained some.


This is my first "self made" sump... so i'm just going to need a little help.. i have experience with them, but not really configuring them and doing them myself... so thanks for any help you can lend me along the way.

 

[Joel A]

anyone care to weigh in?

 

[Dave]

If possible you might want to put the skimmer the same compartment as the drain. To connect the two I would use unions and pvc pipe. Any chance you can take one of the end panels off to get a larger sump in the stand. Water height has to allow for the overflow to drain and the siphon to break. I can keep my sump a little more than half full.

 

[Joel A]

skimmer would be in the same compartment as the drain, the reason i use these two tanks and not a bigger one is because I don't feel the stand is structurally sound enough to take out any sort of brace what so ever to make it possible to fit in a larger tank.

 

[Dave]

Check this out: http://www.melevsreef.com/install_sump.html
You can add bracing if needed.

 

[6stang9]

Can you slide in a 29g from the top? A 29 is nice and tall. I just made a sump out of one for a 135. Plenty of room, and only one tank to deal with.

 

[Joel A]

I like that idea actually rosey, I think i may end up doing something of that sort it the future, but for the time being i just want to get my feet wet and use what i have (saving for better lights and don't want to spend it all on a sump).

So back to the original questions of how much water to have in each tank, I'm not really sure how exactly to go about this.

Also, how should i go about getting water from sump tank A to sump tank B.. thanks.

 

[rfkeeper55]

I'm currently trying to diy my fuge for a 55 gallon and from what i've heard, the way to determine how much to fill the fuge is a little bit of trial and error haha. The way i'm structuring mine is I will have an overflow leaving show tank (which will stop water from continuing to drain into the sump if the return shuts down because the water in the show tank will drop below the overflow level since water from the fuge won't be refilling the show tank) and a glass baffle set up in the fuge behind which I will place the return (which if the drain from the show tank into the fuge shuts down won't continue to pump water into the show tank because the water level behind the baffle will drop below the top).

I hope that helped

 

[Joel A]

yeah, thats pretty much what i had figured it on... trial and error.

Maybe adding a one way valve will help too....

Right now i'm just focusing on getting some water down there and getting the skimmer up and running, i can get the fuge perfected maybe using the idea rosey gave me a little later on when i get tired of the set-up down there.

I mean at least if i have an extra 15 or so gallons of water down there, along with a working skimmer thats certainly better than nothing right?

 

[marco67]

Did you buy the sump yet ?

I've taken the center brace out of a stand before (TEMPORARILY) to install a sump and it's really no big deal.

All you need is some very basic construction skills and tools.
What you'll need to do is make a temporary header to carry that front edge.
Take the doors off cut 2 2x4s at 48" and 2 whatever the measure is from under the top of yous stand to the floor minus 5".
With the doors off lay one 4 footer up against the stand on the floor (your bottom plate) and one on the flat under the front edge of the tank (your header) add your two "studs" at about 3 1/2' and knock that center piece right out. When you do get it out and it won't take much, they are just stapled in you'll laugh at the amount of nothing it was holding.

Seriously don't let it stand in the way of you adding the biggest sump you can get in there.

when you are done just reinstall the center brace and get rid of the 2xs.

 

[stingythingy45]

Do you already have the 20 gallon high and 10 gallon?
If not I would suggest a 20 long and just baffle it and have everything in one tank.It will make your life that much easier.If you use both tanks the 20 will have to be drilled to allow gravity feed to the 10 gallon.The 10 gallon will require some sort of baffle to keep your macro algae..ect from being sucked up the return pump.
Is your 75 gallon R.R.?
If a small hole is drilled in the return line just above(like mine) or just below the water line the water that returns to you sump during power outage will be minimal.

 

[Joel A]

To answer all the questioned asked.

Marco, i totally see what your saying, but the reason i'm not comfortable with removing the center brace is pretty much because the plumber/contractor that i built the stand with doesn't feel that its safe... they may be something i will eventually look into to get a nice big sump down in there, either that or cutting the side of the tank as rosey recommended.

Bob:

I do already have a 20 gallon and a 10 gallon, but i also have a 20 gallon long sitting around that i could use as well... just not sure if i could squeeze it in the opening. I'll check and get back to you on that. The 75 gallon is not reef ready, and will be using an overflow box on the back lefthand corner of the tank.

Also bob, can you explain more on what you mean with the drilling of a hole in the return line?

 

[stingythingy45]

"Also bob, can you explain more on what you mean with the drilling of a hole in the return line?"

Yeah,it's just an anti-siphon hole.If you lose power your water generally backs up in the pump and causes a siphon to start.If your return pipe or pipes are 4 inches below the water surface,this is where the water will end up in your display.This could cause a big problem if the sump can't hold the access water or PHs run dry.I drilled a small hole about 1/8 inch just above the water line in each of my returns.Now if I lose power or shut the system down,water wont siphon back through the return as the holes wont let it do that.I plan on making sure I clean the anti-siphon holes every once in a while.
Maybe I can snap a picture of mine sometime.

 

[dakar652]

from my experience, 1 sump is enough of a PITA...hah...but if you want to go the route with the 20 high and the 10, i would use the overflow piping idea instead of running the water into the 10 with a pump. it would be a NIGHTMARE trying to balance the amount of water going in with the amount being pumped out. only problem with the drilling/plumbing idea is you really have to make sure you have enough going into the 10 gallon constantly, otherwise your return pump could run dry and you could have a real problem...pump could sieze...water would still be flowing in from the 20 high...until it went below the level of the plumbing...and by that time your 10 could be full.

i'm still new to all this also, but i've had a few sump overflows already due to careless mistakes including forgetting to turn my overflow siphon pump back on after cleaning the filter...and also placing my return spout too deep in the display tank so the siphon level was WELL below the level of my overflow...big mistake...but we live and learn...and now we live with a salt ring on our carpet...LoL.

any questions, feel free to pmail me @ duallydakar@yahoo.com and i'll get back to you promptly. enjoy your project...

 

[Joel A]

Yeah bob, I see what you mean now. Did you just drill one hole, or multiples?


Thanks for the advice dakar, and welcome to the BRS as well. =)

 

[marco67]

To answer all the questioned asked.

Marco, i totally see what your saying, but the reason i'm not comfortable with removing the center brace is pretty much because the plumber/contractor that i built the stand with doesn't feel that its safe...

My bad,
I was assuming it was an "off the shelf" stand, AGA, Oceanic etc...


Whenever I see or type that word I can't help but think of odd couple where Phelix explains to Oscar about a**-U-Me

 

[Joel A]

No worries marco, i too agree that it makes sense to get as much water volume down there as possible, so i think i'm eventually going to do what rosey suggested, but i'd just like to get something down there for now and do that in the future.

 

[dakar652]

well...if you want to get it done the way you WANT the first time...instead of the hassle of having to do it twice, i can loan you any of the tools you'd need to hack up your stand if that's what's keeping you. just LMK...although pickup/dropoff in dudley, ma would be required and that might be a hassle from where you are. i'd offer to lend a hand too, but i only have one good one right now (hand)...rendering me kinda useless for any type of construction project. the most i could offer you is tools and advice...but i'd really like to see you get it right off the bat...that way you don't have a couple useless tanks sitting around later with holes in the side of them...!

 

[stingythingy45]

Yeah bob, I see what you mean now. Did you just drill one hole, or multiples?


Thanks for the advice dakar, and welcome to the BRS as well. =)

Yup,just one hole will do it.
My return come the the middle of the back of the display then Ts off to 2 returns.Then they come over the back corners and into the display.I didn't glue the lengths of PVC that run down to the directional elbow until I tested it out.I had the anti-siphon holes under the waterline first but the display siphoned back for that I wanted.So I just sawed them off til the holes were just above the waterline.You would think that the water would come jetting out of the holes....that's not the case though.Just a small amount of water dribbles out the hole.And the display only drops about 1/2-1 inch when the power is cut.You can here the siphon break in the return pipes because of the hole.

 

[dakar652]

bob...i'm gonna have to do this too...with the anti siphon holes. i have 3/4" return...what size bit should i use for the hole?