sumpless ato without float switch

[Daleyjdan]

hello so ive been thinking for a while of how i can have an auto top off without a sump or a float switch because i dont feel like having it fail then flooding my house etc, and then i came across this thread...

http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made/...s-siphon-method-electronic-free-p-116714.html

i was thinking i could have this same method except tap the bottom siphon airtubing into a canister inlet hose so that the water from the top off bucket mixes right in with the water going into the canister, gets filtered with it, then gets pushed back up into the tank with it until the water level raises therefor stopping the siphon.

the guy also has a video on how his ato works,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCHLJ1dzmPo

let me know what you guys think, thanks

 

[dcforester1]

You are going to trust a $4bucket to stay airtight? This hobby has enough issues, that I wouldn't add this to the mix.

Good luck Derek

 

[s_kelley]

What's wrong with a float switch?

 

[Daleyjdan]

ive seen online that they malfunction alot, i just keep reading its not worth it to trust them, and i would be sealing the cap on and all around the bulkheads just like that guy in the other thread does

 

[STiTCH87]

I HIGHLY recommend you don't attempt that... Lol.

Why do you need an ATO anyways? If the tank is under 10g you can just top off daily by hand like I do.
If it's over 10g the evaporation shouldn't be quick enough to cause too serious of a salinity swing from my experience (i'm sure others will agree/disagree).

EDIT: A quality float switch should never malfunction. The cheap no-name kits might, but something of quality won't.

Google search a Tunze Osmolator

 

[mchartier]

Look at the ATO's that use a pressure switch, like the SpectraPure UPLC (what I run pumps up from the basement), Avast, and Typhoon.

Avast ATO - http://www.avastmarine.com/ssc/do/product/rigging/Top-off-Kit

 

[MrX]

Or if you had a controller like the Apex Jr. you could do what I did:

1) Determine approximately how much top-off water you need per day
2) Figure out how long it takes your ATO pump to pump that much water
3) Configure the Apex Jr. outlet for the ATO pump to run for that amount of time -- I had my run 4x a day, each time it turned the outlet on for 1/4th the total time +/- 1 or 2 seconds for pump startup
4) I used a float switch as a back-up to TURN OFF the ATO Pump if it triggered

Gave me pretty consistent water levels with no real worries that it would be overdone.

 

[uhupong]

Tunze Osmolator will take care of all your problems. Best equipment I invested.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[yukyuklee]

+1 on the osmolator... or you can do it a tad bit cheaper and get a JBJ ATO with a TOM's aqualifter

 

[jayinh]

you could use a dosing pump, that what i use on my 12 gallon sumpless tank. mine has a dial for speed control so i can get it just right. if you do use a float switch ATO the cheap floats are fine, just seal the wires and use a second switch as a kill if the first acts up.I often wonder if the people who hate float switches ever had an issue personaly with one or if they had a second switch as a backup?

 

[STiTCH87]

Or if you had a controller like the Apex Jr. you could do what I did:

1) Determine approximately how much top-off water you need per day
2) Figure out how long it takes your ATO pump to pump that much water
3) Configure the Apex Jr. outlet for the ATO pump to run for that amount of time -- I had my run 4x a day, each time it turned the outlet on for 1/4th the total time +/- 1 or 2 seconds for pump startup
4) I used a float switch as a back-up to TURN OFF the ATO Pump if it triggered

Gave me pretty consistent water levels with no real worries that it would be overdone.

You know, I had that exact thought once. Wasn't sure if it'd work. Now that I know it does, i'm very happy to try it out!

 

[P-Nut]

hello so ive been thinking for a while of how i can have an auto top off without a sump or a float switch because i dont feel like having it fail then flooding my house etc, and then i came across this thread...

http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made/...s-siphon-method-electronic-free-p-116714.html

i was thinking i could have this same method except tap the bottom siphon airtubing into a canister inlet hose so that the water from the top off bucket mixes right in with the water going into the canister, gets filtered with it, then gets pushed back up into the tank with it until the water level raises therefor stopping the siphon.

the guy also has a video on how his ato works,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCHLJ1dzmPo

let me know what you guys think, thanks

For $15-20 more you can get the JBJ ATO. I never had an issue with mine.

 

[Daleyjdan]

well i have just about everything, all i would do is buy some more airline tubing and a couple of bulkheads and some kind of safe sealant, i dont see why you guys think its a bad idea.. it seems pretty reliable to me, and pretty damn cheap

 

[mchartier]

In your first post you mentioned you did not want to risk flooding, yet you are relying on this bucket to stay air tight. If the seal is broken the bucket empties. Float switches are not bad, the rep they get are from not being cleaned and sticking or a snail or something sitting on it. So with regular maintenance your fear of flooding with that can be relieved. I would trust a float valve over that siphon any day, I run the SpectraPure UPLC because I needed a pump that can push up to the floor above.

A lot of people have raved about the AutoTopOff floats. http://www.autotopoff.com/products/ST1/, this along with a Aqualifter pump would be great.

I just know I would be very uneasy if I was running this siphon/vacuum top off. Also what happens when you need to add more RODI to the bucket, does it start automatically or do you have to intervene?

 

[Daleyjdan]

you would put a shutoff valve in the bottom tubing so once you seal the valve for filling the bucket again you can start the siphon over, but ya true i didnt think of the fact that if it loses it seal it loses its water, ill look in to the ato floats

 

[Daleyjdan]

thanks, for pointing that out

 

[delta]

Just because someone posted it on the internet doesn't make it a good idea

But wait there was a video.. Again just because someone made a video of themselves jumping off a bridge and posted it to the internet doesn't make it a good idea

Lets review the video
" I have been doing this for 4 month"
" I read on the internet it was the safest way"
"it will only work if the bucket is air tight"

What was not said you are using a soft airline in a john guest fitting which is far from perfect on gaining an air tight fit.
you happen to have something/one lean against the line and it could easily break the seal on the john guest fitting.


Tunze Osmolator is by far the easiest to setup and use on a sumpless tank. It also has the the fails safe of two different methods of shutting water off and a high water alarm. Tunze designs around sumpless tanks and has for many many years.

I have done this for many years & relying on siphons in any way in reefkeeping is just a extremely bad Idea. Especially a siphon that starts and stop never mind your room for error/disaster is only a 1/4" or so

 

[me2003]

There are several reliable ways to do this. The two major problems with this design is the fill valve is for water and is not designed
to be air tight any leaks in any seals will cause the container to empty. It also requires it to be higher than the sump to be gravity
feed. This limits where it can be placed.

"tap the bottom siphon airtubing into a canister inlet hose "
This could create a venturi effect and pull water out of your top off system.

If you have the airline tube on your aquarium top surface. It is likely to be clog with food etc

 

[Daleyjdan]

very good points thank you, and i wasnt saying it was a great idea i was trying to see what you guys thought to see if you could point out some flaws.. im just trying to find a safe but affordable sumpless top off system.

 

[me2003]

This is actually a very difficult system to design. A quality top off system for a sump usually has two float switches.
A float valve in a sump has a pressure switch with it.
In a sump there is a significant change in water level allowing enough movement in a float switch.
In the top of a tank there is less water level change. You may have to lower the level of your tank
water to get it to work well. This usually does not look good.
Also the switch may need to protected from surface waves.